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Discovery Our Self Healing Capabilities - Video Attached

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  • #31
    Dear Ryan,

    People here have given you free advice based on their extensive knowledge and experience in energy and self-healing pratice, but you refuse to accept it. That is your choice.

    I made an attempt to clarify what you are looking for here, but you have not commented on it.

    Instead you wrote another lenghty text pointing out that you said this there and that there, while still not making clear what you are looking for.

    You stated that you wanted to know, if anyone had the "same experience".

    So, how exactly do you define "the experience"?

    Here is a list of tries do define "the expereience". Some of the items are just for fun (please don't take them as offence!) to demonstrate how differently something can be interpreted.

    Have you experienced -
    a) self-healing?
    b) self-healing triggered by chi kung practice?
    c) spontaneous movements triggered by chi kung?
    d) that spontaneous movements happen in the area where self-healing is active?
    e) a spontaneous sequence of movements that resemble a routine of physiotherapy exercises and come to a recognisable stop?
    f) dancing freely in the living room?
    g) taking a video?

    Please choose one or define your own clear and short description of your experience.

    Best wishes,

    Leo
    Sifu Leonard Lackinger

    Shaolin Treasure House

    Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

    Comment


    • #32
      A Little Time Out/What Mistakes has Jeffnyar Made?

      Dear Family and Friends,

      Since Jeff can't quite decide whether he wants our help, or if he wants to continue lecturing and insulting us--two incompatible positions--I have, after one warning, given him a little time out to help him make his decision. He will be able to join us again in 24 hours.

      In the meantime, anyone with the time and patience for it can reread his posts, as he has asked. Although Wahnam members will not be misled by his bad example, it may help others avoid his predicament if we take the time to point out his mistakes and suggest the correct alternatives.

      With Shaolin Salutations,

      Chuck D
      Charles David Chalmers
      Brunei Darussalam

      Comment


      • #33
        Oh, Leo, great idea. Indeed I was not quite sure what Jeff meant by his question. Your version is much clearer. My answers are in bold.
        Originally posted by Leo Shaolin View Post

        Have you experienced -
        a) self-healing? absolutely
        b) self-healing triggered by chi kung practice? of course
        c) spontaneous movements triggered by chi kung? um. yeah. every single person in our school has
        d) that spontaneous movements happen in the area where self-healing is active? yup
        e) a spontaneous sequence of movements that resemble a routine of physiotherapy exercises and come to a recognisable stop? not in the way Jeff has described. (I didn't have the patience to watch the video more than a couple minutes)
        f) dancing freely in the living room? yes
        g) taking a video? yes
        Charles David Chalmers
        Brunei Darussalam

        Comment


        • #34
          Asking Questions; Ignoring the Answers

          In response to Jeff's first thread, found here, Sifu Mark Appleford responds:

          "from what you have been describing it seems that you are developing the skill of generating an energy flow at the level of gentle breeze, swaying willows and not vigorous chi flow."
          Ten months later, Ryan responds by saying:

          Firstly i seek some answers to the experiences which I have had, since no one has so far been able to give me some concrete explanation beyond my hypothesize.
          While Sifu Mark has given him a very clear answer--you are experiencing energy flow--Ryan does not seem to regard that as a legitimate answer.

          Looking for answers to important questions is noble; refusing to listen when the response does not conform to what you think it should be is...less than wise.

          CC
          Charles David Chalmers
          Brunei Darussalam

          Comment


          • #35
            The Original Post: Here to Learn, or Here to Lecture?

            In his original post in this thread, Ryan shares his experience, in the form of description and a 27 minute video.

            His request to us is:

            please let me know your thoughts
            We have done that.


            His stated intention is:

            to produced an introductory video to accompany this one, which will explain my path
            Again, those statements suggest two different goals.

            Question: Is Ryan Jeff here on our forum to learn, or is he here to teach about his form of chi kung? Ryan?

            If the purpose of your posting is to learn about how to improve your book-learned practice, that is legitimate. If you are here to teach us, well that just makes no sense. A student in our school who has taken a single course with our sifu, and practiced for one day will have greater knowledge and skills than you. Sorry if that sounds harsh, and is hard to swallow. But it is, as we have all learned, the truth of the matter.
            Charles David Chalmers
            Brunei Darussalam

            Comment


            • #36
              Self-Healing? But of Course!

              Ryan Jeffery writes above:

              the message was not about my training approach, but the realization of the possible state of self-healing, which I will repeat again, "no one has told me that they have specifically experienced".
              I suggest that you take a little time to read through our sifu's website, and this forum, to find the many stories and testimonials of people who have healed themselves using chi kung. You are indeed correct that the body has a natural ability to heal itself.

              Since you seem to want very specific answers that have been given very many times here, and elsewhere, I will state, uncategorically: I have experienced self-healing, both before and after seeking expert instruction from one of the world's greatest chi kung masters. There is no doubt that healing is much more efficient using our chi kung. You might like to take the chance and try to heal your prostate cancer on your own, but that is against our advice.

              Finally, may I suggest, if you want to continue seeking help here, that you make your posts, and your videos a little shorter, and more to the point, so that we can quickly get to the heart of the matter about what you need help with.

              Also, 30-35 minutes is too long a session for our chi kung.

              CC
              Charles David Chalmers
              Brunei Darussalam

              Comment


              • #37
                What Have You Learned?

                Jeff writes:
                The purpose was really to seek some understanding through shared experiences of whether anyone had experience something similar.
                I answer: Most of us have experienced some form of deviation, though perhaps not to the extent that you have.

                I choose this Forum, since they are the most likely to find any flaws in what I was saying, and possibly can provide a platform for me to be assessed.
                You say you would like us to find flaws, and assess you, but you have not shown yourself to be very receptive. Rather, you are full of arguments, defensiveness, and insults.

                I have not found a single response that concretely addresses what I have explained or demonstrated on the video, not one. Please take time to review them yourselves again.
                You have received numerous answers, but you already have some idea about what the correct answer is, as though you know more about chi kung than we do. Why would we bother rereading, and repeating answers that have already been given to you, when you are clearly incapable of even seeing the answers? Why ask questions if you already think you know what the answer should be?

                So what have I learnt from this interaction [...] do tell me
                I'm not sure what you have learned. Maybe, as you wrote:

                Exactly, nothing.
                Here is what you might have learned if you had been paying attention:

                --What you are experiencing is chi flow.
                --The body has an innate ability to heal itself.
                --This ability is greatly enhanced by high level chi kung.
                --It is better for you, especially since you have cancer, to seek out a chi kung master.
                --We are very familiar with what you are trying to do
                --Some of us have tried unsuccessfully to learn from books
                --You are intellectualizing which is hampering your progress.
                --You will benefit more by keeping your mouth open (wider).
                --You are blocking up energy in your midsection. (the root cause of your illness)
                --You need to let go.
                --You are being disrespectful to the master, (thus making progress almost impossible)
                --You are wasting valuable time trying to discover things that have already been discovered. (Reinventing the wheel)

                The above list is not even comprehensive, being from memory.

                But it is amazing that after all of this observation and feedback, from various chi kung masters, that you are still too blind or stubborn to acknowledge the good advice, and rather say that no one has answered you, and you have learned nothing. It is almost certain that given your mindset (the single most important factor in high level chi kung) we cannot help you. Change your way of thinking and there might be a hope.

                With the Best Of Luck,

                Sifu Charles
                Charles David Chalmers
                Brunei Darussalam

                Comment


                • #38
                  Dear Ryan,

                  The ban after a warning was only temporary. You are welcome to continue the discussion in a respectful manner.

                  We are used to being direct, which can be misunderstood as being harsh. No one intended to attack you before you started insulting us. A lot of free advice has been given to you, but it seems like that was not what you have been looking for.

                  We’ll give you the chance to start from scratch again. Please try to formulate clear questions in preferably short texts. I gave you a few examples.

                  If you choose to abstain from our forum, we sincerely wish you well – like we did all the time.

                  Best wishes,

                  Leo
                  Sifu Leonard Lackinger

                  Shaolin Treasure House

                  Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Kindness/Fulfilling a Request

                    Dear Leo,

                    You have been very kind to Ryan Jeffery already, by attempting to help with his chi kung, as have other instructors. But he responded to our time and thoughtful efforts with rudeness, showing that he wasn't really interested in our opinions, unless they flattered him, or conformed to what he already thought.

                    Since he has now expressed a high degree of disdain for us, I really doubt he will interested in learning from us.

                    Nevertheless, his video and his writing provides us a good opportunity to offer a critique.


                    CC
                    Charles David Chalmers
                    Brunei Darussalam

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Critiquing Ryan's Chi Kung, As Requested

                      Dear Wahnam Family,

                      In order to fulfill Ryan's requests, which were

                      please let me know your thoughts [regarding the video]
                      and

                      find any flaws in what I was saying

                      I would like to ask more junior members to critique what he has said and shown. Feel free to also comment on what you think he may have got correct.

                      I will get us started.

                      --Whether through ignorance, laziness, or neglect, Ryan addressed all of the instructors in our school by their first names, which is, of course not the norm in kungfu or chikung culture. Someone who wishes to learn an art is wise to do a bit of research on the culture and traditions of the form. For example, I have only a passing interest in symphonic music, but if I had the good fortune to meet, or correspond with a conductor of a renowned orchestra, I would know, and be honoured, to refer to him, or her, as Maestro.

                      (Needless to say, when I say "Barry Siheng", it does nothing to flatter Barry, yet, it puts me in a good frame of mind to learn from someone with more experience and wisdom than me.)

                      ++On the plus side, Jeffnyar was lucky, or wise enough, to find sifu's book and learn from it. I really hope he derives great benefits from it.

                      When preparing your critique, it may be helpful to consider physical, energetic and mind aspects.

                      Pedagogically Yours,



                      Charles
                      Charles David Chalmers
                      Brunei Darussalam

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Are We Being Uncharitable or Unkind?

                        In case you are thinking it is uncharitable to offer critiques, keep in mind that you are not criticizing the person, but rather the ideas and execution of those ideas. The man behind those is likely a very fine person who does many good things, and we are not putting him down. Rather, we are taking an opportunity to practice our own skills of observation and understanding, and sharing with others, one of the main purposes of this forum.

                        CC
                        Charles David Chalmers
                        Brunei Darussalam

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Ran across a comic strip the other day that immediately reminded me of this thread.

                          IMG_5586.jpg




                          Best wishes,
                          Markus Kahila
                          Shaolin Nordic Finland

                          www.shaolin-nordic.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Markus Kahila View Post
                            Ran across a comic strip the other day that immediately reminded me of this thread.

                            [ATTACH]6808[/ATTACH]




                            Best wishes,
                            I have refrained from further comments on this site, not for fear of being banned for disobedience or failure to comply with established protocol, as I had been admonished in a previous thread, but rather the collective narrow mindedness of the participants posing as distinguished instructors.

                            Respect as I have said, is a two way thing. You cannot hope to achieve respect if you do not deport yourself in a manner to earn respect. By this I do not mean posturing in a front of a classroom of students, who may be impressed by the longevity of involvement in your discipline but your demonstrated achievements.

                            I realize that i have tread on the toes of members of a clique and this is the manner such old boys networks tend to operate, A mode of behaviour having lived a long time in the UK of which I am all too familiar. It does not bother or phase me in the least.

                            Its often the case that the analogy one draws is reflective of the world in which they dwell so its perhaps fitting that the use of a carton character to convey a point (however irrelevant both in terms of the context or the timing of the input that it may be), may be appropriate for the intended audience.

                            So given that you have just joined the dance, and are still struggling to feel the pulse or the beat of the music, let me remind you a few things:

                            (i) The overriding message was that there is an apparent coordination, possibly at the level of the subconscious, where the brain uses induced chi flow, to coordinate specific movements of the body, towards targeted areas of illness or pain. I have experienced this on a number of occasion now in the past. I was therefore seeking to find others with similar experiences and therefore thought that the Forum may be a good place to start. This was my reason for joining in the first place and consequently sharing the video.

                            (ii) N.B I was not speaking about random "Induced Chi Flow", I have heard too many responses along this line. So i need to make this point quite clear, since I believe that I can train my cat to induce its chi in less than two days, if its mind is open to listening.

                            (iii) Review the thread of responses from any of your colleagues, and in particular the first response which I had last year, which reinforces the fact that none of you, have ever experienced what I have demonstrated on this video. I repeat, not one of you. If you have then send me a video evidencing what I have demonstrated.

                            (iv)You are simply trying to cover your ignorance and limitations by trying to criticize my breathing and etc. Yet if you take your heads out of the sand and read widely enough, you will see that there are variations on the theme of different exercises, and also the technique of breathing used by different authors.

                            (vi) I came to you, not to dent your egos in front of your students or to recreate the wheel as has been echoed a few times ( How can I be repeating something, when none of you and your peers have any firm evidence of experiencing this). Please do not reiterate what the Grand Master has talked about in his book. I have also read about the wonders. I am talking specifically about you the individuals, have YOU, had a similar experience in a consistent basis.

                            (iv) If you are still unclear, like many of your clique, about the explanations which I was seeking from presenting the video. I implore you to read again my detailed explanation of my experiences. If you still do not understand, then it reinforces why the comic book analogy is still so appropriate at this stage of your life.

                            (iv) I was told that I should have kept the video shorter, "27 mins is too long to practice". This view reinforces your total lack of specific understanding/experience of what was being demonstrated, and further the implausibility of you having had this experience. If you did then you would not have made this statement about the timing. Since as I have explained, the routines are quite specific and closes with my legs being brought back together. Its a complete sequence; a cycle of the movements which I have tried to capture to facilitate better understanding.

                            I am not here to enter into any circularly debate with you learned gentlemen. I have seen the disparaging remarks, and the collective drive to achieve the moral high ground. I have decided to respond today, since in light of the lecture which I was given on codes or behaviour and respect, that I was sent such a disparaging email today.

                            The overall dictum was that I should abide by such ignorance at the risk of being expelled from your forum. In retrospect your attempts to discredit the message that I was giving, has done more collective damage to yourself. Particularly by going on record to implore your students to expose weaknesses in the form etc of my exercises.

                            I have heard all the rambles and the vague responses. I am in no way defensive since I do not have any claimed credibility nor is this a source of income for me. Its a hobby. If you cannot address or relate to the experiences directly, then I suggest that you do some research, or seek some counsel, but please do not descend to the language that its being used, since it does not put you in a good light or do you think that it does?

                            Enjoy the rest of your day

                            Ryan Joel Jeffrey

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              ...aaand he's back.


                              I'll keep my reply short, as essentially I see this as a very simple issue.

                              You've posted at our school's virtual kwoon about your opinions and discoveries regarding internal training.

                              As a response, our instructors have given you some very good advice and rightly highlighted that according to our experience, what you seem to regard as good results and good training actually are not. Since this is our school's virtual kwoon, this would at the very least be our responsibility towards our students.



                              Coming back to the comic strip I posted;

                              I think it's funny. I hoped you would too. However, don't mistake it for an insult, because it is not, as it is in no way directed at your person. Instead, it is again meant to highlight the importance of safe training, gradual progress and good benefits which are the hallmarks of our school.


                              So, personally I would like to see you resume this discussion. I hope you'll start by addressing some of the very good questions from the previous ten or so posts you've so far seemed to ignore.


                              I too wish you a very enjoyable day.


                              Best wishes,
                              Markus Kahila
                              Shaolin Nordic Finland

                              www.shaolin-nordic.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Hi Ryan

                                Originally posted by jeffnayr View Post
                                (iii) Review the thread of responses from any of your colleagues, and in particular the first response which I had last year, which reinforces the fact that none of you, have ever experienced what I have demonstrated on this video. I repeat, not one of you. If you have then send me a video evidencing what I have demonstrated.

                                (iv)You are simply trying to cover your ignorance and limitations by trying to criticize my breathing and etc. Yet if you take your heads out of the sand and read widely enough, you will see that there are variations on the theme of different exercises, and also the technique of breathing used by different authors.
                                if what you mean is if anyone here has ever recorded a 27 minutes video to demonstrate he/she gets spontaneous chi flow, you are right, nobody, AFAIK, has ever done that on this forum. But if what you mean is about "experiencing chi flow", I think you are completely wrong, and to back my words, I'd suggest you have a look at the 1000s of videos from Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit, where you can clearly see, in some of them, people having chi flow, of varied intensities, some of which might be similar to what you're experiencing. As an example of this, see these videos, for instance, but if you have time to go over the wonderful videos there, you'll find plenty of that in other videos.

                                I am just a student in this school, so please allow me to pretend I understand more or less what you're feeling, which is that when we are beginners, we think we know more than the master. That has happened to me also, so please take this as a friendly suggestion, but I'd suggest you to go take a course with one of the instructors of the school, or even much better, if possible, with Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit. I think that would help you understand much better what the instructors are trying to tell you, which you are getting as an offense, when, IMO, it's just friendly intention of helping you.

                                best wishes

                                Comment

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