Discovery Our Self Healing Capabilities - Video Attached

[Andrea]

Hello Ryan

Thanks for sharing the video. In our "Chi Flow", which we do after practicing a Qigong exercise, we let the Qi take over and the resulting movements are spontaneous. The movements can take many forms, depending on the need of the person practicing. I have seen people jump, bend back- or forwards, roll on the ground, laugh, sing ... all kind. And that's fine. We just let it happen and normally do not try to influence it with our mind. We also do not tense our muscles, instead we relax, do not worry, keep our mouth open and simply enjoy the experience. When we stop we do it gently.

So if you were my student, there are a few things I would correct and invite you to do differently. From my experience your results would be very fast and effective. But you are not my student and you are certainly entitled to practice what you believe is best. When others here have advised you against it, it is because they care and because as practitioners and teachers we have seen that wrong practice can do more harm than good. And it would not be ethical to let people hurt themselves without at least trying to give them better advice.

With regards to the innate self-healing abilities. Nobody not even a Western doctor would question the fact, that we do have self-healing abilities. If you cut yourself and keep the wound clean, it will heal. And even beyond the physical - many placebo studies have shown, how effectively the mind supports healing.

So I would like to push this topic further. What makes these abilities more effective than average? Why do some people heal, others do not. That's were it becomes interesting. Even more so as today many people are aware of this and practice various energy arts, yet do not necessarily get healed. The same is true for different Qigong styles... many practice Qigong but do not get the same results. Could it be that it is not so easy to "undig" this healing ability?

Personally I believe that without proper training, it is extreme luck to get good results. I am not saying it can't happen, but chances are higher it won't. And at least for me it seems much easier, faster and thus effective to find a Master who lives what he teaches and can show me how to do it, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. But that's my choice. In the end everybody has his own path and needs to make his or her own choices.

Andrea

[jeffnayr]

Dear Ryan,

It’s kind of difficult to comment on your explanations without knowing you and your exact status of knowledge.

If you are wondering about the spontaneous movements itself… We call it chi flow or self-manifested chi movement. That’s what we are experiencing every single day.

If you are wondering about the re-occurring patterns during this spontaneous phase … Like Matt Siheng said this can be common among us. The involuntary movements are an outward manifestation of the internal chi flow that is working on certain, specific parts or organs of the body. Therefore the spontaneous movements can be similar over some time until the specific blockage is released.

Reading about our Five Animal Play here on the forum or on Sifu’s website might enlighten you in this respective.

But, what – I think – we all here are suspecting is that you “subconsciously” direct your chi to the organ you think should be treated. Words are limited, but I would call that “intention”, i.e. you intend to let your prostate (or before your back) be cleared from blockage. Therefore the chi works on that part during your spontaneous phase. Therefore the movements are similar each time you practice. This is not what our grandmaster intended when writing the instructions in the book and not what he meant about the subconscious mind mentioned elsewhere. The instruction is to practice an exercise and then let go while not thinking or intending anything.

Also, there was surely no instruction to put your tongue up and down in Sifu’s book. You must have read this somewhere else. Don’t mix up! Just keep your mouth gently open!

Coming back to your question:
Yes, the self-healing capabilities you experienced are innate in every human being, but most people don’t realize them. Even less people are able to enhance their natural functioning to overcome pain and illness faster.

It seems a bit like you are trying to re-invent the wheel. The methods of past chi kung masters have been handed down to people of our time. The masters also explained the underlying philosophy. But still you seem to be trying to find out everything yourself again, while risking unnecessary deviation or even damage to yourself.

Best wishes,

Leo

Leo

While I welcome your comments, please allow me to be as candid as you are in my response.

There is a lot of noise in what you are saying and you are confusing rather than addressing what I have been at pains to try and explain.

I understand that the Video is not clear in itself and as I have said on many occasions, I am willing to subject myself to whatever examination or testing is necessary.

The movements in general

The movements are involuntary ( meaning that i have no control over them), i can be talking to you or the camera at the same time and it will take me through a routine.

As i have said before, and at a risk of reiterating what I have said. Though the movements tend to follow a particular pattern, there are variations on a daily basis, as if there was a program being followed. I stress that the movements are not the same every day, so its unlikely that they are a results of my thoughts on that day.

The fact remains that even if the movements are triggered by me thinking of an area of ailment. The significant point, and one that should not be overlooked, is the fact that my body is directed through a series of specific tailored routines to address those ailments.

Let me clarify again my usage of the term subconscious. I have used this term in its simplicity to mean that part of the mind that does not think, has no reasoning power, but performs very important functions ( see page 115 of the book 1999 edition of the ART OF CHI KUNG. It goes on ti say that "Our Subconscious Minds have infinite knowledge and wisdom as they are a link with the omniscent, omnipresent Universal Mind".

While I have not or cannot deny that the knowledge of my illness is not within my subconscious since by definition it is, since this is what our subconscious state does. The message that i am making, is that "I have experienced this coordinated movements to address specific ailments". This is all. If there are a million people who have shared the same, then I want to dance with them.

Recreating the wheel

I am not sure what is the relevance or the point that you were trying to make here, since in what way have I done or sad anything to suggest that am trying to recreate the wheel?

Please point me to that reference where I have suggested that I was adding to or doing something that suggest that I was breaking new ground.

What I was demonstrating in my video, albeit the video may not be suitably clear to everyone. Was not simply involuntary, uncoordinated movements, but a specific sequence of program like movements that last for a duration of approximately 30 mins, and then informs me through a position of closure that it was complete.

In my last thread (which you may not have had a chance to read prior to commenting), I specifically addressed the objective of me sharing my experiences on this Forum. Please review if you have time.

I have humbly stated that I know that I am not the only person with this experience and was therefore reaching out to those who had similar experiences to help to enlighten my understanding.

While I welcome the obvious concern for my well being by most of the commentators, (though ironically no one has asked me what form of exercises that I have been doing prior to passing judgement on the risk to my health).

I am still waiting for someone to say that they have had the experience that i have detailed and videoed or to invite me for a review.

I guess as Leo has opined, what I am demonstrating is something that is very common place and it does not warrant the benefit of further scrutiny.

If this is the collective mindset of this Forum, then I am surprised that after so many years of practicing an art form or practice that supposedly embraces a difference in thinking and the deepening of ones wisdom, that the collective thinking has remained so closed.

Kind regards

Ryan

[jeffnayr]

Hello Ryan

Thanks for sharing the video. In our "Chi Flow", which we do after practicing a Qigong exercise, we let the Qi take over and the resulting movements are spontaneous. The movements can take many forms, depending on the need of the person practicing. I have seen people jump, bend back- or forwards, roll on the ground, laugh, sing ... all kind. And that's fine. We just let it happen and normally do not try to influence it with our mind. We also do not tense our muscles, instead we relax, do not worry, keep our mouth open and simply enjoy the experience. When we stop we do it gently.

So if you were my student, there are a few things I would correct and invite you to do differently. From my experience your results would be very fast and effective. But you are not my student and you are certainly entitled to practice what you believe is best. When others here have advised you against it, it is because they care and because as practitioners and teachers we have seen that wrong practice can do more harm than good. And it would not be ethical to let people hurt themselves without at least trying to give them better advice.

With regards to the innate self-healing abilities. Nobody not even a Western doctor would question the fact, that we do have self-healing abilities. If you cut yourself and keep the wound clean, it will heal. And even beyond the physical - many placebo studies have shown, how effectively the mind supports healing.

So I would like to push this topic further. What makes these abilities more effective than average? Why do some people heal, others do not. That's were it becomes interesting. Even more so as today many people are aware of this and practice various energy arts, yet do not necessarily get healed. The same is true for different Qigong styles... many practice Qigong but do not get the same results. Could it be that it is not so easy to "undig" this healing ability?

Personally I believe that without proper training, it is extreme luck to get good results. I am not saying it can't happen, but chances are higher it won't. And at least for me it seems much easier, faster and thus effective to find a Master who lives what he teaches and can show me how to do it, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. But that's my choice. In the end everybody has his own path and needs to make his or her own choices.

Andrea

Andrea

Thanks for taking the time out to give such a detailed feedback, its very much appreciated.

I am not going to repeat many of the points which I have already said. I have myself read about the experiences which you have mentioned.

I remember the first sensation of being moved by flow of Chi, it convinced me of the merits of chi kung.

What I have subsequently experienced simply from doing basic exercises albeit on possibly a more frequent basis than if I had attended say weekly classes, is a bit different.

These are not random spontaneous movements, these are specific targeted movements. This is the point that I am trying to labour.

I am not just randomly being moved around, the exercises are working specific points in my body. The movements if you watch closely are symmetrical to a large extent.
Its as if am attending a series of physiotherapy classes.

Once again, thanks for the time and the feedback.

Kind regards

Ryan

[barrys]

Dear Ryan,

I hope you are enjoying your practice and getting some benefits.

If someone posted a video of themselves eating a banana while standing on their head and then asked if anyone had had the same experience it would be difficult to answer. If someone had eaten a banana while standing up - which in my opinion would be both easier to perform and easier to digest - they could answer "yes", "no" or "yes and no".

If someone posted a video of themselves performing a top-spin forehand and asked if anyone had the same experience again, depending on the form shown and the approach taken, the answer might be "yes", "no" or "yes and no". But I am not sure it would get anyone anywhere.

So, just to be clear, yes I and everyone in Shaolin Wahnam has experienced Chi Flow, a feature of which is to lead to the clearing of illness. I have sometimes had similar movements to those you described, sometimes other movements and sometimes none at all. These would all be manifestations of Chi Flow. Yes, the movements (or lack of them) can be spontaneous but that doesn't mean I have no control over them. I have also regularly experienced being able to direct or lead the Chi Flow for specific purposes although generally I wouldn't use that approach to clear an illness or to maintain health.

reaching out to those who had similar experiences to help to enlighten my understanding.

What would you like to understand? Have you got any other questions you would like to ask?

With metta,

Barry

[Leo Shaolin]

Dear Ryan,

Please point me to that reference where I have suggested that I was adding to or doing something that suggest that I was breaking new ground.

What I meant when I said that it seems like you’re trying to re-invent the wheel, was that you are trying to understand and to build a philosophy on what happened to you. This is what past master have already done for us.

though ironically no one has asked me what form of exercises that I have been doing prior to passing judgement on the risk to my health

There is no need for us to ask for the exercises you are practicing. Exercises or – as you already experienced yourself and showed in the video – no exercise at all can trigger spontaneous movements. The core of this discussion is not on the exercises, but on the spontaneous, uncontrolled movements afterwards. We regard those spontaneous movements as a skill – not an exercise – that we call “chi flow”. For us “chi flow” is the essence of Chi Kung, so no need to talk about the initial exercises.

I am still waiting for someone to say that they have had the experience that i have detailed and videoed or to invite me for a review.

I will give it a try to formulate what you are looking for in a clear and non-mis-understandable question. Of course I can’t read your mind, but I’ll try my best to crystallize what I read in your posts. Please correct it, if I didn’t hit the nail on the head!

Has anyone here also experienced a sequence of involuntary, uncontrolled movements that resemble a routine of exercises to work on specific areas of the body to set off self-healing in this areas and come to a recognisable stop by themselves once the routine is over?

I think those two quotes also sum up what you wanted to show quite well:

What I was demonstrating in my video, albeit the video may not be suitably clear to everyone. Was not simply involuntary, uncoordinated movements, but a specific sequence of program like movements that last for a duration of approximately 30 mins, and then informs me through a position of closure that it was complete.

These are not random spontaneous movements, these are specific targeted movements. This is the point that I am trying to labour.

Once we have agreed on the core topic of this discussion we can work from there instead of going in circles.

Best wishes,

Leo

[Charles David]

Jeff,

You seem to be forgetting that you are coming here to ask for our help. If you continue to be rude to the instructors in our school, like this

There is a lot of noise in what you are saying

then we will ask you to leave. After all, if you don't value what we have to say, then why bother being here?

You say

I am still waiting for someone to say that they have had the experience that i have detailed and videoed or to invite me for a review.

Sifu Barry has given you the answer: we have all experienced chi flow, most of us on the first day, many of us in the first minutes.

And why would we invite you to "a review"? You are welcome to sign up for classes, like any other students, most of whom have not previously insulted us. You don't really seem to want to learn; rather, you seem to want to show off your knowledge, and get confirmation that what you are doing is good, while giving the air of someone with some authority who merits study and further research. In fact, you are not even yet a beginner. We have already seen and heard enough from you, and the short answer is: you are doing it wrong, as evidenced by your posts, your video, and the fact of your cancer diagnosis.

You would be wise to be humble, and seek out a teacher rather than continue on your own.

Now, is there anything else you want?


Yours,

[Charles David]

Respect

Browsing through our sifu's extensive Q&A series, looking for something else, I happened, by chance on this question, Is is safe to learn chi kung from a book or a video?

To which sifu replies:

Practicing chi kung exercises like “Lifting the Sky” and “Carrying the Moon” from my books or videos, provided the student follows the instructions respectfully, is safe even when he is a complete beginner.

Of course I thought of this thread. It is interesting to note the key word respectfully. I would hazard a guess that, since Jeff has not been respectful towards us on this thread, that he also has not been respectful in following the instructions in sifu's book.

Just a thought.

Yours,

Charles

[jeffnayr]

Dear All

I appreciate the responses that I have been getting so far, though as its quite apparent, I do not reconcile with the generic views and I will explain my position later.
I live by the mantra that if someone either appears to, or specifically states that they do not understand the question that you are asking, then you need to try and find a way of communicating in a manner that they understand, in other words “do not blame the recipients.”
I am new to this site and blogging in general, so I am not sure whether my responses are being seen solely by the person that I am addressing or to all respondents on the particular thread. This has significance, since I feel that I may be at the risks of boring or offending some members if I attempt to reiterate the same points which they have passively read for the nth time. Apologies to those of you who I have offended in this manner.

In summation, the responses that I have gotten can be categorized into three boxes.

(1) Firstly, we do not know what you are trying to get from presenting the video to us, but whatever the reason and whatever you are doing be mindful of damaging your health.

(2) We do know what you are doing and its induced chi, we have all experience this and manifest itself in several ways including laughing and rolling on the floor in an uncoordinated and spontaneous manner. You could get there in a more systematic manner, and without the risk of damaging your health if you attend one of our classes.

(3) We understand vaguely what you are speaking about, but we have not had any real experiences as such, and maybe you should attend a class.
Setting aside the analogy drawn between a monkey with a banana on its head and the meaning or intention of my video, I can perhaps achieve some ground by reiterating my objective in the following manner.

Primarily it was to try and find other people who had the same experience, not something that the Grand Master had made reference to in his book, the same experience as I had explained and shown in the video. For further clarity, this is what led me to the reaching this point of deciding to shae this information:
(i) That I came to the decision to prepare this video, after more than a year of this recognition of “systematically and not simply randomly movements “ to address initially:

(a) a long standing condition with my back, (b) followed by an injury to my sciatic nerve sustained while doing some DIY and (c) then latterly my prostate. The latter being evidenced in the video.

(ii) Having previously discussed the matter with some members of the Forum ( see my thread going back to Mar 2015), I decided to share this video so that they can see exactly what I had communicated to them, back then , since at that time ( again please see the thread) they had indicated they had no firm explanation,

(iii) I mistakenly felt that though I had not labelled my experiences in 2015, that the video would have helped through the visual demonstration of what I was speaking about, rather than create the apparent confusion which has ensued.

I can only assume that there must have been gross misunderstanding that has resulted in the confused and inconsistent responses which I had received.
I do appreciate the concern demonstrated for my health; even though not served in equal measure by the trivializing of what clearly has not been understood.
I have always been advised to preserve my integrity by admitting to not knowing something, rather than casting doubt on what the other person is saying.
This was the tone adopted by the first chap who had responded in 2015, when he admitted that it was something that he had read about but had not experienced.
To associate what I was demonstrating as being solely an inducement of my chi, and to denounce my suggestions as trying to recreate the wheel, speaks volumes of the culture which prevails in the hierarchy of this institution. How could be accused of trying to recreate the wheel for dong some basic exercises, though consistently in a book that has been sold without health warning?

I have had snide comments being made about lack of respect, without any cognizance that respect is a two way thing.
I have read each one of your comments several times and still I have not found a single response that concretely addresses what I have explained or demonstrated on the video, not one. Please take time to review them yourselves again.
In response to my statement that no one has even bothered to ask me what exercises I had been doing, prior to reaching this general theme of risk warning to me health. I was told that they did not need to ask me this (and this was apparently a collective response on behalf of the group it appears), since it was evident the exercises that I had been doing.

Now I have been accused of being disrespectful, but do I have a choice when faced with this level of arrogance, bordering impudence.
I would have left this forum, with a bit more confidence in your collective mental state, if you were humble enough to admit that you did not know, but you have decided to posture behind your tinted shades and tried to ridicule something that you clearly did not understand. Theoretically possibly but practically no. I have read about long distance Chi Flows, have I ever seen it?

This attitude is not new, it’s pervasive of man. In this respect I am not disappointed or even dismayed, but surprised that people who are practicing an art form which should help elevate one’s consciousness to a less deprived state, seemed to have regressed in their abilities to learn.
So what have I learnt from this interaction, other that I should be mindful of the risk to my health importasnt as this is, do tell me?. What positive take aways have I had.

Exactly, nothing. Instead you think that you can use this as an opportunity to discredit what I have presented from the comforts of your clique.
Now expel me for speaking the truth if you so desire since doing so always has its price, but I will never cower to expressing my views in the face of arrogance or duplicity. I understand the reason for your stance, again we are territorial and who am I to rain in on your parade. This is not my intention. The gift that I have been given, is not mine for the keeping. I do not believe in coincidences. There is a message in all of this and this is not about monetary rewards, I have enough to eat and drink, and cloth myself and this is enough for me.

I will not address any cynical or petulant individual responses. I have made my point and you can share your arguments with your colleagues.

[Andrew]

Ryan,

If you are not getting the reponses you are looking for, maybe consider why that may be. Here are some options:
1. You are not asking clear or concise questions
2. Your questions are not relevant to the answers you are expecting to get
3. The answers you are getting do not match the answers you were hoping to provoke
4. Your real questions are hidden away in the longer texts
5. Noone here understands you

There are other options, of course, but these seem most appropriate.

When I review this thread, it reads to me something like (a little tongue-in-cheek):
SCENE - Man walks into cheese shop
Man - I have just made some cheese and believe anyone can do that. Let me show you
Shop Owner - Cheese is great, isn't it? We have been making cheese for decades. Maybe you'd like to learn how to make your own cheese better?
Man - That means you don't know what my cheese is and, as such, do not understand cheese
Shop Owner - Yes, we know cheese. We've been making it for decades. We've taught so many people how to make their own cheese, too. Maybe we can help you make your cheese better, more efficiently and avoid the pitfalls that can lead to contaminated cheese?
Man - So you don't accept that I can make cheese and anyone else can do so, too!
Shop Owner - Of course anyone can make cheese. We've been doing it for decades. But a lot of effort goes into making great cheese. We can show you how, if you like
Man - You can't explain how I made my cheese and what it tastes like
Shop Owner - We understand how to make many different types of great cheese. We do so using tried and tested methods and make great cheeses as a result. Our decades of experience have shown that adhoc cheese making mostly doesn't produce great cheese -- at least not consistently. We're just trying to help
Man - You can't make my cheese, and because you don't want to try to learn how i made my cheese, you cannot understand cheese
Shop Owner - We have spent decades perfecting the best cheese making methods. We don't need your cheese and can predict that you may start producing some quite unhealthy cheese if you continue in this way
Man - But my cheese can be made by anyone ......

See the circles? See the parallels?

Ryan, I suggest you take a step back for a day or two, reconsider your aims and objectives of visiting our virtual school and the come back and state your questions clearly and concisely.

[Charles David]

A Real Pity

[[edit: cross post with above makes my post redundant. Cheese!]]

[barrys]

Dear Ryan,

It is only a small point but

a video of themselves eating a banana while standing on their head

There wasn't any mention of a monkey or a banana being on a head.

I use the analogy of eating a banana quite regularly e.g. if someone is trying to explain what a banana tastes like to someone who has never tasted it they can use a lot of words but the other will never really get it - if you give that person a banana they can instantly know. It could just as easily work substituting the idea of a banana with the idea of an orange.

Hope you are still getting benefits from your practice. I agree it is truly wonderous to come across a process, that anyone could replicate, that appears to lead to a reduction in the manifestations or emergent phenomenon of something like prostate cancer.

With metta,

Barry

[jeffnayr]

Ryan,

If you are not getting the reponses you are looking for, maybe consider why that may be. Here are some options:
1. You are not asking clear or concise questions
2. Your questions are not relevant to the answers you are expecting to get
3. The answers you are getting do not match the answers you were hoping to provoke
4. Your real questions are hidden away in the longer texts
5. Noone here understands you

There are other options, of course, but these seem most appropriate.

When I review this thread, it reads to me something like (a little tongue-in-cheek):
SCENE - Man walks into cheese shop
Man - I have just made some cheese and believe anyone can do that. Let me show you
Shop Owner - Cheese is great, isn't it? We have been making cheese for decades. Maybe you'd like to learn how to make your own cheese better?
Man - That means you don't know what my cheese is and, as such, do not understand cheese
Shop Owner - Yes, we know cheese. We've been making it for decades. We've taught so many people how to make their own cheese, too. Maybe we can help you make your cheese better, more efficiently and avoid the pitfalls that can lead to contaminated cheese?
Man - So you don't accept that I can make cheese and anyone else can do so, too!
Shop Owner - Of course anyone can make cheese. We've been doing it for decades. But a lot of effort goes into making great cheese. We can show you how, if you like
Man - You can't explain how I made my cheese and what it tastes like
Shop Owner - We understand how to make many different types of great cheese. We do so using tried and tested methods and make great cheeses as a result. Our decades of experience have shown that adhoc cheese making mostly doesn't produce great cheese -- at least not consistently. We're just trying to help
Man - You can't make my cheese, and because you don't want to try to learn how i made my cheese, you cannot understand cheese
Shop Owner - We have spent decades perfecting the best cheese making methods. We don't need your cheese and can predict that you may start producing some quite unhealthy cheese if you continue in this way
Man - But my cheese can be made by anyone ......

See the circles? See the parallels?

Ryan, I suggest you take a step back for a day or two, reconsider your aims and objectives of visiting our virtual school and the come back and state your questions clearly and concisely.

Andrew

Please do not take this personally, but if you have received my last thread sent this morning and still cannot understand what the objectives were and you are implying that the rest of "your school" has the same mental capacity, then I am in no position to help you. I am not sure whether its a language thing, but please reserve your condescending tone for those with either selective or otherwise impaired cognitive abilities.

Please read again my first thread and tell me whether you still could not discern (understand) what I was saying.

Have a pleasant day.

[barrys]

Dear Ryan,

I have gone back and checked your original thread and the only response I could find said this

Hey Ryan,
Thank you for posting your experiences of the Forum, from what you have been describing it seems that you are developing the skill of generating an energy flow at the level of gentle breeze, swaying willows and not vigorous chi flow.

In our school we believe that this was what the past Masters were hinting at in some of the classics, but not openly writing about.

Firstly as you have confirmed there is nothing to worry about, especially from what you describe because you are arriving there in a balanced and natural way. This means that the internal enviroment is "right" for this to spontaneously happen.

So, I am not sure where you got this idea from

this was the tone adopted by the first chap who had responded in 2015, when he admitted that it was something that he had read about but had not experienced.

Best wishes,

Barry

[Matt F.]

Hi Ryan,

I want to respond to a few areas of your last post. I'm quoting them separately, so it is clear to what I am responding. My intent is not to quote you out of context, and misrepresent the meaning of your statements.

I live by the mantra that if someone either appears to, or specifically states that they do not understand the question that you are asking, then you need to try and find a way of communicating in a manner that they understand, in other words “do not blame the recipients.”

You seem to be under the impression that you have asked a clear question, and that the responders simply do not understand. However, if you have asked a question at all, it has been incredibly vague. So, if you are getting answers of yes, no, yes and no, either yes or no, neither yes nor no... it is because one cannot answer a vague question with a direct answer.

(1) Firstly, we do not know what you are trying to get from presenting the video to us, but whatever the reason and whatever you are doing be mindful of damaging your health.

(2) We do know what you are doing and its induced chi, we have all experience this and manifest itself in several ways including laughing and rolling on the floor in an uncoordinated and spontaneous manner. You could get there in a more systematic manner, and without the risk of damaging your health if you attend one of our classes.

(3) We understand vaguely what you are speaking about, but we have not had any real experiences as such, and maybe you should attend a class.

You are mistaken if you think these three responses belong in different categories, or are responses from three different perspectives/understandings. In fact, the three examples that you have highlighted are a continuum of one answer. They are not independent, but quite the opposite.

Primarily it was to try and find other people who had the same experience, not something that the Grand Master had made reference to in his book, the same experience as I had explained and shown in the video.

I have read each one of your comments several times and still I have not found a single response that concretely addresses what I have explained or demonstrated on the video, not one. Please take time to review them yourselves again.

Again, we're back to the incredibly vague information. How can anyone concretely address what you have shown in the video, when you yourself have said that it's difficult/impossible to understand what is happening by watching the video, because there are things happening that do not come across via video?

Are you under the impression that the Self-Manifested Chi Flow, as practiced in Shaolin Wahnam, is always random, regardless of the healing intention? Are you asking if anyone has experienced specific movements as a result of a specific healing intention? If that is the case, then yes, I certainly have had that experience.

After tearing the meniscus in my right knee, I would begin my Chi Kung session with a gentle thought of healing that injury, and the chi flows that I experienced resulted in specific movements in my legs, and my injured leg specifically. Each session that began with a gentle thought of healing the injury had similar leg movements, and session that did not begin with that thought usually did not have those movements.

Yes, my chi flow was specific in addressing an injury, rather than random. However, it was not a lengthy routine, as you have indicated to be your experience. So, does that concretely address what you have "asked"? I still don't know. It's not clear to me if you are mostly interested in responses about a specific chi flow response vs. a random/systematic response, or if you are mostly interested in responses about the lengthy/repeated routine.

I would have left this forum, with a bit more confidence in your collective mental state, if you were humble enough to admit that you did not know, but you have decided to posture behind your tinted shades and tried to ridicule something that you clearly did not understand. Theoretically possibly but practically no. I have read about long distance Chi Flows, have I ever seen it?

Are we crazy? or are we ignorant and trying to cover it up with ridicule? If you're going to insult the responders as a collective, at least try to narrow it down!

Seriously, though, I think what you are seeing as ignorance is in fact the opposite. The instructors that have responded have sooooo much knowledge about self-healing (and healing others) via Chi Kung, that what you have mistaken for ignorance is the attempt to narrow down what you have experienced. As you have admitted, you yourself do not fully understand what you are experiencing. Since you cannot explain it, in order to diagnose what is happening, many questions need to be asked and a lot needs to be clarified. It's much like going to an auto repair garage, and telling the mechanic that your car is making a "glug, glug, glug" noise. Would you accuse the mechanic of trying to cover up his/her ignorance if he/she started asking you a lot of questions, or seemed a little confused by a very non-specific report of "glug, glug, glug"?

This attitude is not new, it’s pervasive of man. In this respect I am not disappointed or even dismayed, but surprised that people who are practicing an art form which should help elevate one’s consciousness to a less deprived state, seemed to have regressed in their abilities to learn.

You have mentioned more than once that you are surprised at how closed minded we are, as a collective. Again, the misunderstanding is yours (though it is a common misunderstanding that many people share).

The misunderstanding is that since we believe in, and have experience with, a modality that is not commonly accepted by the majority (in this particular case, self-healing via Chi Kung), then we should be open to any/all modalities that are not commonly accepted by the majority. And that is a very big misunderstanding!

We have experience with a very specific modality, and know it works! Many of us also have direct experience of how someone can mess up this modality, and cause more harm than good. It's not an acceptance of anything that goes against the norm. It's direct experience, of something specific. And it certainly doesn't imply that we should immediately accept any/all "alternative" methods.

No one is saying that your experience is invalid, and closed off to the possibility that what you are doing is effective. But you are doing things that we have seen cause harm in others, so we are also not closed off to the possibility that you are setting yourself up for disaster.

-Matt

[Andrew]

Andrew

Please do not take this personally, but if you have received my last thread sent this morning and still cannot understand what the objectives were and you are implying that the rest of "your school" has the same mental capacity, then I am in no position to help you. I am not sure whether its a language thing, but please reserve your condescending tone for those with either selective or otherwise impaired cognitive abilities.

Please read again my first thread and tell me whether you still could not discern (understand) what I was saying.

Have a pleasant day.

We are not mind readers, I'm afraid. All you have said in your multiple, confusing posts has been:
1. Look at what I have experienced
2. I want someone who has experienced exactly the same to confirm whatever theories I have worked out for myself. Anything that is only similar is not interesting or relevant.
3. I know you are all very experienced, but I know better
4. I want to teach this (or a variant) to others
5. I don't need advice, but please advise me

Maybe you're right and it's a language thing. What is your first language?