Discovery Our Self Healing Capabilities - Video Attached

[jeffnayr]

Dear All

Further to my earlier posting, in April 2015 and of February 2015, I am now sharing a link to a Video which I have posted on you tube, showing the apparent self healing movements of the induced Chi, a the level of my subconscious as I have previously tried to explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITfjoD716kI

This has been filmed in my living room, showing the impact of the involuntarily yet specifically targeting particular parts of my body in this case the meridians in my inner thighs and my groin area, in a routine which last for approximately 30 to 35 mins.

The few people who has seen this so far have been are generally scared of what they have seen, more out of the understandable incomprehension. The movements for me are soft, and not scary, and very much orchestrated to follow a specific program from one day to another.

The chi as you would have seen in this video has been stimulated with a few draws of breaths and hence the reason I had started to move almost immediately on the commencement of the filming.

The area of my body that is being targeted in this series of exercises is my prostate ( I have as June 2015 been diagnosed with prostate cancer). I have tried to explain to my doctors that the continued decline in my PSA score, is linked to the Chi Kung exercises that I have been doing but there is not much interest in the matter. I have tried to explain what I am showing you on the video, but their minds are closed and the conversation is aborted.

I believe that the Chi once induced, is being coordinated at the level of the subconscious, to direct the movements that you see in the video, but I do not know how this has been triggered.

Peculiarly, if i am interrupted during this routine, and subsequently resume. It appears that the program will recommenced at the the point of interruption to the end

As a signal of completion, it always takes me back to the point where my legs are brought together and my head falls a little, as you have seen in the video.

I can stop when I want and can also resist the movements if i wanted to, but when I simply relax and allow the energy to direct take control, the effect is what you see here. The setting of the video is deliberately not polished, since i wanted it to be as real as possible, please let me know your thoughts.


My intention is to produced an introductory video to accompany this one, which will explain my path and the various stages from the inducement of my Chi, to the visualization exercises to this apparent manifestation of a combination of the coordination of the chi by the brain on the subconscious level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITfjoD716kI


Kind regards

Ryan Jeffrey

[wooden shoes]

Dear Ryan,

Mark Sihing (Sifu Mark Appleford) gave you some really good advice here

Follow that advice instead of experimenting (on) yourself.

Best wishes,

Roeland

[Leo Shaolin]

Dear Ryan,

While your intention is good, I regard your path of self-tuition as neither wise nor cost-effective.

It’s good that you developed chi flow (spontaneous chi movements) by yourself and that you gained benefits through your practice.

But anyway, your wondering about re-occurring spontaneous patterns could have been easily answered by our instructors.

If I understood your texts correctly, you are also using your mind (i.e. visualization) to direct the energy. Following Wu Wei, especially in your position as an untrained practitioner, would be much safer and more effective.

By taking a class with one of our instructors – there are some very good ones in the UK – your effects would have been stronger, while using up less time for practice.

It’s kind of you that you want to let people know about self-healing capabilities, but I doubt that many people will watch your video. Even less people will be able to comprehend what’s going on. And even less will be able to find a way to reproduce your effects.

In the worst case people just try to voluntarily follow your personal – though seemingly involuntary – routine, which would be a complete waste of time that would be better used to find a genuine master.

Please don’t get me wrong! I respect your sincerity and your kind intention, but I know from direct experience that there are much better and more systematic ways to learn, to practice and to pass on the knowledge.

Best wishes,

Leo

[Markus Kahila]

I know from direct experience that there are much better and more systematic ways to learn, to practice and to pass on the knowledge.

- Better, more systematic, and above all safer.


With kind regards,

[jeffnayr]

- Better, more systematic, and above all safer.


With kind regards,

Thanks for your concerned words, and all feedback, is appreciated.

While i totally endorse the idea of attending a class, my purpose of sharing the video was primarily to find out whether anyone had similar experiences.

The purpose of the video was not to try and train anyone. As I have said, my intention was primarily to seek awareness as I have painstakingly spelt out. The purpose of the proposed video (which I have not yet completed) was to make this point quite clear.

I take it from the responses that i have received so far, that none of the sifu's have experienced what I have relayed, since if they had, I presume, wrongly or rightly they would have been able to responded more succinctly.

I appreciate the point that I could have arrived at this level more safely and in possibly a shorter period of time, but who would have been able to guide me to that point if they themselves have not had the experience of realizing this.

I sincerely apologize if this is a common experience, but simply a secret not to be shared.

I do appreciate your words of caution, and would always adhere to this.

I will as I have said produce an introductory video in which I will spell out clearly the purpose of my Video.

My objective was not about the specific means of achieving this, but rather the fact that we all have this innate ability is the more the message of the video. I am not closed to the mindset that while Chi Kung may have been my vehicle,its not necessarily the only vehicle for stimulating this ability.

I apologize if i had failed in my attempts to make this point clear. It was not intended for anyone to follow the involuntary movements.


Kind regards

Ryan

[Leo Shaolin]

I take it from the responses that i have received so far, that none of the sifu's have experienced what I have relayed, since if they had, I presume, wrongly or rightly they would have been able to responded more succinctly.

Your presumption is wrong. What you experienced is our daily business in practice and teaching.

Best wishes,

Leo

[jeffnayr]

- Better, more systematic, and above all safer.


With kind regards,

Markus

Please do not take this wrongly but on what basis can you reach the point that my training was not systematic or safe?

I did buy the book written by the Grand Master, Wong Kiew Kit and only did the basic exercises as he advised, so are you telling me that the material that he has published should not have been followed or carried a health warning?

I have stressed the point that I have not attempted any advanced routines.

Further are you saying that what I have depicted is a result of some mal practices. On what basis can you reach that conclusion?

More specifically do you know what I have experienced or have you achieved this?

Induce Chi is a basic technique and so are most visualization exercises.

I was reticent at first of sharing this video and had been warned of the likely responses, but I am delighted that i have done it, and there was no appropriate channel than through thus forum.

Kind regards


Ryan

[jeffnayr]

Dear Ryan,

Mark Sihing (Sifu Mark Appleford) gave you some really good advice here

Follow that advice instead of experimenting (on) yourself.

Best wishes,

Roeland

Roeland

While adhere to sound advice, what is your basis for saying that I am experimenting on myself. Is simply dong some basis Chi Kung exercises experimenting on myself?

What is your basis for that assertion?

Have I mentioned anywhere doing any complex routines.

Thank you

[wooden shoes]

Dear Ryan,

I think you should follow Sifu Mark Appleford's advice about attending class because you miss some important instructions which are found in Sifu's book but which you do not follow. This sounds harsh, but just learning from the book is actually quite difficult. I didn't manage that myself, as I found out after attending one of Sifu's classes. You think you are following instructions, but you are not. In your case, for instance, your mouth is not open when you practise. Judging from your writing, you may (consciously or subconsiously) be sending energy to places instead of letting go. You also intellectualise a lot.

The real problem is that you lack good skills and as you are investing time in this, it is much wiser to make sure you have the proper Chi Kung skills.

Sifu's books do not need a health warning. Follow the instructions mentioned, don't add anything to it and, if at all possible, attend a class from a competent Chi Kung instructor.

Roeland

[Andrew]

I was reticent at first of sharing this video and had been warned of the likely responses, but I am delighted that i have done it, and there was no appropriate channel than through thus forum.

Could you please explain what you meant by these two phrases?

In the meantime I have watched some of the video. It looks like you are locking up chi in the lower regions of your body (abdomen down to genital region), which is normally not a good thing.

[Markus Kahila]

Please do not take this wrongly but on what basis can you reach the point that my training was not systematic or safe?

- From the basis of reading your posts, and my experience as a teacher and a chi kung practitioner.

I don't see the need to elaborate further, but you have no need to feel thretened by any comments here. You've only received very good advice generously given by experienced instructors who are all a part of a genuine lineage and have all been trained by a highly skilled chi kung master. People here are simply trying to help you avoid very common pitfalls in chi kung training, and also to get the most of your practice.

So, I'd recommend for you to take the good advice given here and seek a genuine chi kung master / instructor instead of experimenting on your own.


With kind regards,

[Matt F.]

Hi Ryan,

Welcome to the forum!

One thing that is important to remember is that this forum is an extension of the Shaolin Wahnam school, and not just a random forum for discussion of Chi Kung and martial arts. Therefore, any comments/suggestions you receive from Shaolin Wahnam instructors will be biased toward a specific point of view on what is correct, safe, effective, etc. We all have direct experience with Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung, and have found it to be very effective. Also, as instructors (on a forum that exists to serve the international Shaolin Wahnam community) it is important for our students, and anyone interested in the Chi Kung that we teach, that we make a point to distinguish between our method and other methods. It helps avoid any confusion, and keeps our students on the correct path (as per the Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung method).

Any advice, suggestion, etc that you receive from an instructor on this forum is coming from the perspective of what is correct, safe, and effective for Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung. You may be perfectly on track for what another method considers correct, safe, and effective. But we have direct experience of our method, and know it works. And from the perspective of our method, there are several things that you seem to be doing that could be cause for concern. So, any suggestions, corrections, or words of caution from instructors is not to say that you are "wrong" but to offer advice to make your practice safe and effective (from the perspective of our method, that we have experienced to be both safe and very effective).

One thing that I thought was interesting about your experience was that I believe you reported experiencing an involuntary sequence of movements that was always the same from day to day. You also said that you could interrupt this sequence, and it would pick back up from the point of interruption once you re-started your practice. I have certainly experienced certain movements that commonly show up during self-manifested chi movement, especially if I have a gentle thought of a certain area/injury/etc. But I've never experienced a lengthy routine. So, I cannot offer any suggestions about that area of your experience. But I did think it was interesting.

I may have missed it, but what was your purpose for posting the video of your session on the forum? Was it just to share? Were you looking for advice? Were you asking any specific questions? You had made a comment about not getting direct, concise responses. But it wasn't clear to me what exactly you were wanting or the purpose of your posting.

-Matt

[jeffnayr]

Could you please explain what you meant by these two phrases?

In the meantime I have watched some of the video. It looks like you are locking up chi in the lower regions of your body (abdomen down to genital region), which is normally not a good thing.

Andrew

Thanks for the comments, and thanks for taking your time to review the video.

With respect to the two comments

(i) Firstly, I had been warned by people close to me and even the few who had even witnessed me exercise, that people may either be shocked or disbelieve what they were seeing or what you are saying.

(ii) The second point that i was making was that the Forum, given the collective source of knowledge, was the best ground for clarifying or doubting the efficacy of what I am saying, since they are the most trained minds in this field of practice.

These two points have in fact been borne out by the comments which I have had so far, since no one has really tried to probe a bit further. Rather they have cast doubts on the training which I was doing and in a way discrediting what i was saying by pointing to the fact that I could have arrived at this point with less risk to my health etc, as if the experience was quite common.

If you go back to my first mention of this experience on my thread ( I think that it was March or April last year) you would see from the first comments made ( which were very appropriate I must admit), the sifu did not acknowledge any experience of what I was explaining.

While I heed the advise of possible risk if unsupervised, the message was not about my training approach, but the realization of the possible state of self-healing, which I will repeat again, "no one has told me that they have specifically experienced".

With regard to your inquiry about my breathing technique. I just wanted to explain that I was in fact breathing in through my nose ( with my tongue to the roof of my mouth, just at the top of my teeth, and breathing out with my mouth slightly open, with my tongue against the bottom of my lower teeth.

What is not clear from the video, and I may not have properly explained, is that the movements are specifically targeting the meridians around my inner thighs and groin area, which results in a feeling of stimulation in my prostate.

I need to state, that I am not trying to use my mind to move the energy or anything, this movement is all involuntary but specific.

The pattern of the movements are also very symmetric, and not in a form that would suggest that there is energy trapped etc. The movements are generally smooth but very intricate, since there are slight movements and positioning of my body, which are perhaps difficult to discern from the video.

The core movements are the same from one day to another, but there are slight variations as if its following a program.

I want to add that this is not the first part of my body on which I had experienced this, since I have had a similar experience on my lower back and also on my sciatic nerve, when i had damaged the latter while working about 5 mths ago.

It is why I have stated, with a reasonable degree of confidence, the claim that I have about these self-healing properties within all of us.

This is not random, its happens on any part of my body, where I have had some ailment.

I have already seen significant improvements in the way of changes in the common ailments that one associates with prostate cancer and My PSA score as i have said, has continued to decline etc.

Intellectualizing

I am jot sure what was meant by this comment, since I believe that we always have to implore some amount of logical thinking in relation to experiences which we have, particularly where we are on relatively un-chartered waters. I believe that a lot of the claimed benefits of Chi Kung falls within this domain.

While I cannot state with any certainty as to what has brought about this highly coordinated movements in my body, towards specific ailments, which has consequently led to relief and noticeable improvements.

It is logical i think, that as the brain is the coordinator of all things within the body and that one of the Pillars of Chi Kung is the clearing of blockages in order to aid the feedback mechanism for the brain to coordinate its responses to ailments. Then it stands to reason that it must be directing these movements at the level of the subconscious.

What I was really seeking by visiting this Forum, was for someone who had experienced something similar to share with me what it was, since I had little awareness until recently that this has been a fairly unique occurrence.

A large premise of Chi Kung is the opening of the mind. The simple notion of the movement of chi within the body, is still a fantasy to people who have never read or followed any form of Chinese medicine. Yet to most people on this site, its something they have come to know without question.

If we read with interest the claimed ability to transfer chi over hundreds of miles, or the ability to read thoughts or develop psychic abilities, then the notion of the body being coordinated to address illnesses, cannot be that far fetched.

Thanks for reading.

Ryan

[jeffnayr]

Hi Ryan,

Welcome to the forum!

One thing that is important to remember is that this forum is an extension of the Shaolin Wahnam school, and not just a random forum for discussion of Chi Kung and martial arts. Therefore, any comments/suggestions you receive from Shaolin Wahnam instructors will be biased toward a specific point of view on what is correct, safe, effective, etc. We all have direct experience with Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung, and have found it to be very effective. Also, as instructors (on a forum that exists to serve the international Shaolin Wahnam community) it is important for our students, and anyone interested in the Chi Kung that we teach, that we make a point to distinguish between our method and other methods. It helps avoid any confusion, and keeps our students on the correct path (as per the Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung method).

Any advice, suggestion, etc that you receive from an instructor on this forum is coming from the perspective of what is correct, safe, and effective for Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung. You may be perfectly on track for what another method considers correct, safe, and effective. But we have direct experience of our method, and know it works. And from the perspective of our method, there are several things that you seem to be doing that could be cause for concern. So, any suggestions, corrections, or words of caution from instructors is not to say that you are "wrong" but to offer advice to make your practice safe and effective (from the perspective of our method, that we have experienced to be both safe and very effective).

One thing that I thought was interesting about your experience was that I believe you reported experiencing an involuntary sequence of movements that was always the same from day to day. You also said that you could interrupt this sequence, and it would pick back up from the point of interruption once you re-started your practice. I have certainly experienced certain movements that commonly show up during self-manifested chi movement, especially if I have a gentle thought of a certain area/injury/etc. But I've never experienced a lengthy routine. So, I cannot offer any suggestions about that area of your experience. But I did think it was interesting.

I may have missed it, but what was your purpose for posting the video of your session on the forum? Was it just to share? Were you looking for advice? Were you asking any specific questions? You had made a comment about not getting direct, concise responses. But it wasn't clear to me what exactly you were wanting or the purpose of your posting.

-Matt

Matt

Thanks for your well considered response, Since I have read a couple other books which has varied in some techniques, but the core text which I have used is that written by Grand Master Wong Kit. Your comments has been very useful.

Unfortunately the video on its own will possibly beg a lot more questions than answers, particularly to someone not initiated in Chi Kung. Hence the need as i have said for me to produce an introductory video to give some more background.

Purpose

The purpose was really to seek some understanding through shared experiences of whether anyone had experience something similar.
I had raised the subject last year, but then fell compelled to do this home made video, after realizing over a period of time the specific nature of these exercises to target even physical areas of ailment in my body, and more pertinent, the area of my prostate.

I choose this Forum, since they are the most likely to find any flaws in what I was saying, and possibly can provide a platform for me to be assessed. The next option is to be a medically examined to remove any doubts that the movements are anything other than genuine.

In answer to your question about the systematic pattern of movements
Its apparent that a daily program of systematic exercises are being followed. So each day certain core movements are followed, one of which involves in this case it seems, that energy flows are being stimulated along the meridian linked to my bladder, since i feel the sensation of chi through the tingling in the area of my prostate.

The routines last for up to 30ish mins. There are slight variations, and the positions are very intricate, such that it would be difficult for me to tell anyone exactly how to replicate the position that my body adopts. Even when i appear to be standing flat, my heals may be slightly lifted a times.
My feet are always brought together at the end of the routine.

Some particular movements may occur every few days or once a week. ( i try and practice once a day).

If i was not compelled by the power of this experience, i would not have placed myself before a group of experienced practitioners to explain this experience.

This is borne of two things:

(i) I feel that i am compelled to share this and
(ii) I am confident that what I have experienced is something that resides within each of us.

Its written in our dna, it cannot be something unique to my body.
Grand Master Wong Kiew Kit talks about the power of the subconscious mind and I have little doubt that this is what it is.


Kind regards

Ryan

[Leo Shaolin]

Dear Ryan,

It’s kind of difficult to comment on your explanations without knowing you and your exact status of knowledge.

If you are wondering about the spontaneous movements itself… We call it chi flow or self-manifested chi movement. That’s what we are experiencing every single day.

If you are wondering about the re-occurring patterns during this spontaneous phase … Like Matt Siheng said this can be common among us. The involuntary movements are an outward manifestation of the internal chi flow that is working on certain, specific parts or organs of the body. Therefore the spontaneous movements can be similar over some time until the specific blockage is released.

Reading about our Five Animal Play here on the forum or on Sifu’s website might enlighten you in this respective.

But, what – I think – we all here are suspecting is that you “subconsciously” direct your chi to the organ you think should be treated. Words are limited, but I would call that “intention”, i.e. you intend to let your prostate (or before your back) be cleared from blockage. Therefore the chi works on that part during your spontaneous phase. Therefore the movements are similar each time you practice. This is not what our grandmaster intended when writing the instructions in the book and not what he meant about the subconscious mind mentioned elsewhere. The instruction is to practice an exercise and then let go while not thinking or intending anything.

Also, there was surely no instruction to put your tongue up and down in Sifu’s book. You must have read this somewhere else. Don’t mix up! Just keep your mouth gently open!

Coming back to your question:
Yes, the self-healing capabilities you experienced are innate in every human being, but most people don’t realize them. Even less people are able to enhance their natural functioning to overcome pain and illness faster.

It seems a bit like you are trying to re-invent the wheel. The methods of past chi kung masters have been handed down to people of our time. The masters also explained the underlying philosophy. But still you seem to be trying to find out everything yourself again, while risking unnecessary deviation or even damage to yourself.

Best wishes,

Leo