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Recognizing Genuine Taijiquan?

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  • Recognizing Genuine Taijiquan?

    Hi to all my Shaolin Wahnam sifus, brothers and sisters,

    I've come to know of a Tai Chi Chuan instructor (Sifu Nigel Sutton from the Cheng Man-ch'ing lineage) only about 15 minutes drive from my home. He spends most of the year teaching overseas, so I'm not sure how likely it is I will be learning from him, but seeing as he lives and teaches so close, surely there would be no harm in at least paying a visit. I was hoping that perhaps anyone could give pointers on what I should look out for in a teacher/system that would work well with the Shaolin Wahnam training I've had?

    So far reading his articles and videos, he seems to have a healthy dose of emphasis on combat application, and seems to practice a kind of real chi kung though I'm not sure I'm familiar with it. From our few email correspondences he also seems like a very humble and straightforward man.

    A video of his taijiquan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJh_lyq4Z6U
    Some articles he has written: http://www.zhong-ding.com/index.php/articles

    Of course, please don't misunderstand that I think Sifu's courses are not sufficient. It's simply an interest in learning, and there are still a few months before the course so I think this might be a chance to build a good foundation. I might even find long term push hands partners to practice with
    Last edited by wonderlusterer; 28 December 2015, 01:35 PM.

  • #2
    Pointers on what I should look out for in a teacher/system that would work well with the Shaolin Wahnam training I've had?
    Daniel, What would work well with your Shaolin Wahnam training is to practice what Sifu taught you.

    You do not need to go learn from someone else now in order to "build a good foundation."

    In normal circumstances, it is not only sufficient, but incredibly efficient and effective to simply practice what Sifu taught you, and if possible, preview the forms for whichever course it is you wish to take. There are ample resources on Sifu's website to do this.

    As for this other master, it is against the policy of our school to offer explicit critiques of other schools or masters.

    Here is a good article, Qualities of a Good Master.


    Yours,


    Charles
    Charles David Chalmers
    Brunei Darussalam

    Comment


    • #3
      Genuine Taijiquan

      Excellent advice from Sifu Charles .

      This is a very informative link to a previous thread http://www.shaolin.org/discussion/fo...-overview.html
      relevant to Daniel's good question .
      Damian Kissey
      Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
      www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Daniel,

        You've already received some great advice and information regarding how to judge an instructor, and how to build a foundation/prepare for future courses with Sifu. I don't have much to add on those topics.

        With that said...

        There's certainly nothing wrong with learning from other instructors/styles. It will give you a broader base of knowledge & experience, and provide you with a less ignorant/biased platform from which to make future decisions. That's the plus side of it.

        The negative side of learning from different instructors/styles, especially early in your martial arts journey, is confusion and "trying to be smarter than the master". It can be very difficult to keep the teachings, methods, and practices of one style separate from the other. Splitting your practice time between different styles could also be a concern.

        My advice to you, and any other beginner in martial arts, would be to find a school that makes you happy, comfortable, and confident. Commit yourself to that school for at least three years, and then reassess if necessary. Three years of committed practice should provide you with a solid understanding of the teacher/school/style. From there, you can make a much better decision about what you're looking to gain from your practice, if your current path is helping you attain those goals, and a good reference point from which to view other teachers/schools/styles.

        Three years is certainly a commitment. So, I would also suggest checking out several schools and styles (if possible) before making that commitment. The teacher/school is more important than the style, for the beginner. Once you find one that feels "right", then start the three year commitment, and be the best student you can.

        -Matt

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Sifu Charles, Dr. Damian and Sifu Matt,

          Firsly, I would like to wish all of you a happy new year
          Apologize for my terribly late reply, the internet connection in my house went down shortly after my posting. And though I was able to access the internet through my phone I couldn't get to these forums or the shaolin.org page due to some ad pop-up.

          To the topic, thank you all for the great advice. Although I did not manage to read your comments (due to that internet problem) during the week Sifu Nigel was here, I ended up not visiting Sifu Nigel, mostly due to a lingering feeling holding me back that I should just stay home and practice my chi kung and kung fu
          Either way, I was (and am) still hoping to learn from Sifu in March later this year, and hopefully I can be accepted as one of the course participants. My comment on gaining a "foundation" was because I missed out on the taijiquan courses and only learnt from watching the other students practice during our free time, and going back to learn the form from the website later on (it was the simplified cloud hands set). I wanted to spend more of my attention on learning the finer points during the intensive course than spend it on learning the physical aspects.

          Thanks again for all your help, although I did not manage to access your comments then, it is still a great help to know my decision was actually not a bad one Apologies if any of my post came off the wrong way, ie. asking for comments on a different school's teachings, etc.

          -Daniel

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi, Daniel,

            I'm sorry to hear about your internet connection going down. I hate when that happens. #firstworldproblems #thehorror.

            May I suggest you start a thread entitled something like "How to Prepare for An Intensive Taijiquan Course?"


            Yrs.

            Charles
            Charles David Chalmers
            Brunei Darussalam

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Charles David View Post
              Hi, Daniel,

              I'm sorry to hear about your internet connection going down. I hate when that happens. #firstworldproblems #thehorror.

              May I suggest you start a thread entitled something like "How to Prepare for An Intensive Taijiquan Course?"


              Yrs.

              Charles
              Hi Sifu Charles,

              The first world horror indeed, one whole week!
              I've been thinking of questions to start off our thread, but as I typed my questions on how to prepare most of the answers seemed to come to me.
              1) Having attended a short kung fu course with Sifu I should just go on practicing it even if its not Tai Chi
              2) Learn up the sets and combat sequences. Better use of my time than learning a standard set from another school which will not be used in the course.

              Would this be correct? Please advise if I should do more, or less? Other than that, I feel my only question for now is how important is theory studying in preparing for the intensive course? Should I memorize the meaning of terms such as Jing, Peng, Lu, Ji, An etc? Being a Chinese who does not speak Chinese, the fact that Sifu teaches in English is a treasure in itself.

              Thanks for entertaining my questions and I hope I haven't been asking too many dumb questions (sure feels like it when you realize you're talking to someone with years more experience)
              Will you yourself be attending the Intensive Tai Chi Course this year?

              -Daniel

              Comment


              • #8
                I have attended both the Intensive Shaolin Course and the Intensive Taijiquan course, as well as some regional courses, as well as learning other styles of kungfu with other schools, so I'd like to try to jump in and answer, instructors can correct or add to what I say if necessary:

                Originally posted by wonderlusterer View Post
                I've been thinking of questions to start off our thread, but as I typed my questions on how to prepare most of the answers seemed to come to me.
                1) Having attended a short kung fu course with Sifu I should just go on practicing it even if its not Tai Chi
                Definitely. Sifu's Taijiquan, and Sifu's Shaolin Kungfu, are more similar to each other, than either is to any other school's version of Kungfu, including Taijiquan.

                I don't know what was covered in your course but I imagine at least:
                - Going into a chi kung state of mind;
                - Chi flow;
                - Stances.
                - Perhaps some footwork, set/form practise, combat application using the forms.
                Right?

                I think it would be good to practise holding the stances (following Sifu's guidelines, ie only as long as you are relaxed and comfortable), and to practise moving in stances, and anything else you did on your regional course, as these are the fundamentals, they are the foundation and building blocks on which everything else is based.

                Originally posted by wonderlusterer View Post
                2) Learn up the sets and combat sequences. Better use of my time than learning a standard set from another school which will not be used in the course.
                Definitely. One thing I was told before my first intensive course, by others who had taken it before was "LEARN THE COMBAT SEQUENCES". So true. Otherwise you spend loads of time trying to remember and work out the sequences, which is very taxing mentally resulting in the well known phenomena of "brain fry". Sifu will be teaching you other aspects, but you may find it hard to focus on them if you don't know the sequences.

                Originally posted by wonderlusterer View Post
                Would this be correct? Please advise if I should do more, or less? Other than that, I feel my only question for now is how important is theory studying in preparing for the intensive course? Should I memorize the meaning of terms such as Jing, Peng, Lu, Ji, An etc? Being a Chinese who does not speak Chinese, the fact that Sifu teaches in English is a treasure in itself.
                I personally don't think you need to know any information like this, it can be interesting and fun, but Sifu will tell you what you need to know about that on the course anyway. Put it this way, if I had some extra time before the course, I would use it to practise stances or combat sequences instead.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Daniel

                  You've got excellent advice already. The Intensive Tai Chi Chuan course in Sabah will definitely be a great experience.

                  To prepare as advised keep practicing the stances, footwork and yes the Dragon in Zen Set. You will find these patterns in the Tai Chi Chuan sequences as well (with only slight changes). Then I can only repeat what was said already: do your best to learn the combat sequences. Even if you know just half of them, you will benefit more from the course. Some of the later sequences are not easy to learn without previous experience... but just do your best. You will find that having worked on them, will help you remember them during the course. If you have time, you could read Sigung's Tai Chi Chuan book (The Complete Book of Tai Chi Chuan). But this is not needed to get the best out of the course. You might like to read it afterwards, - maybe even in its revised vision that Sigung announced for 2016.)

                  Happy practice!

                  Andrea
                  Enjoy some Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan & Qi Gong!

                  Evening Classes in Zürich
                  Weekend Classes in other Swiss locations


                  Website: www.taichichuan-wahnam.ch
                  Facebook: www.facebook.com/Taichichuan.Wahnam.ch

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Sifu Andrea and Drunken Boxer,

                    Thanks for the advice! Prior to the complimentary course I actually learnt up all 16 shaolin kung fu sequences (as best as I could anyway), and even though they were not used in the end it did help a lot in familiarising myself with the individual techniques. As Sifu Andrea reminded me though, I seem to have neglected the basic stance training somewhat (oops). I do own Sifu's older print of the Complete Book of Tai Chi, but have not been able to grasp too much of the lessons. Perhaps after this course I'll be more initiated

                    I do also have another question if you don't mind, but it is not so much on course preparation but more on the course itself.
                    Expanding into cosmos at the complimentary chi kung course was a wonderful gift I never expected. Would we perhaps touch on something like that again at the intensive tai chi course? Or will this only be limited to an intensive or specialised chi kung course.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wonderlusterer View Post
                      ...Expanding into cosmos at the complimentary chi kung course was a wonderful gift I never expected. Would we perhaps touch on something like that again at the intensive tai chi course? ...
                      Short answer : yes .

                      Long answer : Yes and more ...

                      Genuine highlevel kungfu ( Shaolinquan , Wahnam Taijiquan etc ) is chi kung and more .
                      Last edited by Damian Kissey; 12 January 2016, 04:07 PM.
                      Damian Kissey
                      Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
                      www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Words of Wisdom - merging with the cosmos

                        Thank you Damian Sihing for these words of wisdom.

                        "Long answer: Yes and more..."

                        From my short Experice in the Shaolin Wahnam school - I am very greatful for those 8 years in my life - I can definitely agree, yes, you will experience the sensation of the merging with the cosmos on several occasions and in different courses and this will each time be your very special and beautiful gift, among many other gifts

                        Enjoy and smile from the heart.
                        .•´¯`•.¸¸.•´¯`°irene°´¯`•.¸¸. ´¯`•.

                        ---------------------------------------
                        “I wish I could show you when you are lonely or in darkness the astonishing light of your own being.”
                        Hafiz

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