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  • #61
    Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post
    Sifu Michael,

    Recording the friendly try-out session with an instructor from Shaolin Wahnam, and subsequently posting the video here in the forum, was was part of the proposal to which you agreed to participate in last Sunday. It was clearly articulated in my post.

    Why are you now reneging on the agreement?

    All the best,

    Kevin
    I agreed and still to meeting with you, but I never agreed to be video tapped that was your idea. Anyway, my offer still stands. You can come visit me anytime.just let me know in advance when you coming so I can make sure I'm available.

    Comment


    • #62
      Your agreement for the friendly try out to be recorded for posterity was implied by the fact that you made no reference whatsoever to your wish for it not to be recorded when you agreed to the try out. Reference to it being recorded was clearly stated in my post.

      To be honest I'm a little bit confused: you're not exactly shy in making Kung Fu videos and posting them online for the viewing public, yet when it is proposed for you to make a video with a Shaolin Wahnam Instructor you say no because of some intellectual property?

      Besides, as Sifu Andrew's excellent post notes, the proposed video can hardly be classed as intellectual property anyway.

      All the best,

      Kevin

      ps...on an unrelated matter, your website domain has expired!

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post
        Your agreement for the friendly try out to be recorded for posterity was implied by the fact that you made no reference whatsoever to your wish for it not to be recorded when you agreed to the try out. Reference to it being recorded was clearly stated in my post.

        To be honest I'm a little bit confused: you're not exactly shy in making Kung Fu videos and posting them online for the viewing public, yet when it is proposed for you to make a video with a Shaolin Wahnam Instructor you say no because of some intellectual property?

        Besides, as Sifu Andrew's excellent post notes, the proposed video can hardly be classed as intellectual property anyway.

        All the best,

        Kevin

        ps...on an unrelated matter, your website domain has expired!
        If I did not make it well known that I did not want to be recorded all I can say is a person can changes there mind can't they..But like I said I own all my videa they are my I.P. I'm not shy about making video and I enjoy sharing them but I do not know you or anyone from your organization and I have no idea what you might do with that video. I'm only protecting myself. You should understand that.

        So can you ggive me a date and time when your coming to NYC..

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
          If I did not make it well known that I did not want to be recorded all I can say is a person can changes there mind can't they..But like I said I own all my videa they are my I.P. I'm not shy about making video and I enjoy sharing them but I do not know you or anyone from your organization and I have no idea what you might do with that video. I'm only protecting myself. You should understand that.

          So can you ggive me a date and time when your coming to NYC..
          Our intention for the recording was stated in my post: to post the video here on the Shaolin Forum. Although not stated in my post, it is also likely that family members might like to share it on various social media platforms as they do with all videos posted here (except your ones).

          There is no hidden agenda.

          It is disappointing Sifu Michael that you are now refusing to have the friendly try out recorded for posterity. Very disappointing in fact.

          Kevin

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post
            Our intention for the recording was stated in my post: to post the video here on the Shaolin Forum. Although not stated in my post, it is also likely that family members might like to share it on various social media platforms as they do with all videos posted here (except your ones).

            There is no hidden agenda.

            It is disappointing Sifu Michael that you are now refusing to have the friendly try out recorded for posterity. Very disappointing in fact.

            Kevin
            Sorry but that is my wish.I don't allow anyone to video myself or anyone who represents me. What ever you like to show me can be done in private no need to video anything. The fact that you keep pushing this video speaks volumes. I will just leave it at that.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
              Sorry but that is my wish.I don't allow anyone to video myself or anyone who represents me. What ever you like to show me can be done in private no need to video anything. The fact that you keep pushing this video speaks volumes. I will just leave it at that.
              Dear Sifu McIlwrath,

              The entire purpose of the face-to-face meeting is to demonstrate the specific grabs, counters, etc. that Sifu Kevin pointed out, and the responses that you said would neutralize those actions - specifically throwing the opponent to the ground, AND to document these applications via video recording so other members of Shaolin Wahnam can benefit from witnessing the applications. Sifu Kevin's posts, and the resulting effort for a face-to-face meeting/recording, are for the benefit of Shaolin Wahnam students, not because anyone is trying to show you, or convince you of, anything. So, you see, the recording really is necessary.

              You so rightly pointed out earlier - one cannot fight with mere words. I would suggest that one also cannot have a good idea of application with only reading a written account of the training. You have a very clear video showing your chosen anti-grappling. It simply makes sense to have a second, clear video to show what Sifu Kevin and yourself have noted at the beginning of this thread.

              So, February... Saturday the 14th is probably out. I am sure my fiancé and I will have Valentines plans for that day, and she would not appreciate me leaving for the entire day. But that leaves the 7th, 21st, and 28th. Early afternoon works best for me, let's say around 1:00 PM.

              Please let me know which of those days works best for you. I'll need a few weeks notice to schedule a friend to come along to record the video. So, last minute scheduling would be difficult.

              Let me know!

              -Matt

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                The fact that you keep pushing this video speaks volumes.
                The fact that you are promoting your system on our forum, but will not allow the general public to see the differences in our two styles speaks volumes.

                What exactly do you have to hide?
                Sifu Andy Cusick

                Shaolin Wahnam Thailand
                Shaolin Qigong

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                "a trained mind brings health and happiness"
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                • #68
                  Wasting our Time

                  Sifu Kevin's original post includes the following as a separate paragraph:

                  The friendly training session can be recorded and posted here. Afterwards, we all sit and drink tea together.
                  To which Sifu Mike responds, immediately after:

                  Sure,I would happy to meet with one of your representatives as long as he is a Sifu from your organization.
                  Followed by several pages of dialogue with us working on the assumption you were happy with the plan.

                  You have been wasting our time.

                  You ask:
                  If I did not make it well known that I did not want to be recorded all I can say is a person can changes there mind can't they.
                  Yes, Sifu Michael, you can change your mind. But please stop wasting our time.

                  Yours,

                  Charles
                  Last edited by Charles David; 14 January 2015, 01:42 AM.
                  Charles David Chalmers
                  Brunei Darussalam

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Sifu Michael,

                    You write that we can visit, in private for
                    Whatever you like to show me
                    It is obviously you who wish to show us something, Michael. You came to our virtual Kwoon, and you have been offering your teaching in our forum. And when we point out that your technique is clearly flawed, you offer to give us a personal demo.

                    Your offer to meet in person is to prove a point, obviously. Who are you proving the point to? Us? We already know your techniques are dangerous, and that there are far better ones to use.

                    We are not coming to your Kwoon, or your park. You are in our Kwoon. You have come to us, to show your videos. You have posted the offer to "try out the techniques in person." We accepted your offer, with this proviso: that we videotape the exchange. It is a sensible demand. Sifu Angel, is even willing to travel by plane to see you. Do you really think we will make such an investment without proof? Expect people to take our, or your word for it. Please, be realistic.

                    Refusing to have a video made is not about Intellectual Property--it is about you not wanting to be shown wrong, on the record. You would risk being proven wrong in private, since you would then be able to refute it in public, but you would not risk having the evidence.

                    You have found a way to back out and you are taking it.

                    If you are not interested in seeing your challenge through, we understand. But this nonsense about Intellectual Property is a joke.

                    Yours,

                    Charles
                    Charles David Chalmers
                    Brunei Darussalam

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Andy View Post
                      The fact that you are promoting your system on our forum, but will not allow the general public to see the differences in our two styles speaks volumes.

                      What exactly do you have to hide?
                      It's very easy to see the differences between our two styles. They know yours and all they have to do is watch one of my videos..it's that simple.

                      BTW I have nothing to hide.That is way I make videos,but I do so for the wright reason..

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Charles David View Post
                        Sifu Michael,

                        You write that we can visit, in private for

                        It is obviously you who wish to show us something, Michael. You came to our virtual Kwoon, and you have been offering your teaching in our forum. And when we point out that your technique is clearly flawed, you offer to give us a personal demo.

                        Your offer to meet in person is to prove a point, obviously. Who are you proving the point to? Us? We already know your techniques are dangerous, and that there are far better ones to use.

                        We are not coming to your Kwoon, or your park. You are in our Kwoon. You have come to us, to show your videos. You have posted the offer to "try out the techniques in person." We accepted your offer, with this proviso: that we videotape the exchange. It is a sensible demand. Sifu Angel, is even willing to travel by plane to see you. Do you really think we will make such an investment without proof? Expect people to take our, or your word for it. Please, be realistic.

                        Refusing to have a video made is not about Intellectual Property--it is about you not wanting to be shown wrong, on the record. You would risk being proven wrong in private, since you would then be able to refute it in public, but you would not risk having the evidence.

                        You have found a way to back out and you are taking it.

                        If you are not interested in seeing your challenge through, we understand. But this nonsense about Intellectual Property is a joke.

                        Yours,

                        Charles
                        Let me point out a few things here. First, If you don't want me posting videos on your forum and if I was breaking some rules.If so please show me where?

                        The other is I don't know anyone from the Wahnam organization. We are not friends and have no relationship so to thrust your demands without a duel understanding and friendship is inappropriate behavior,and to force me to do something I'm totally against. Also,this show to me that you have no respect for my terms,which is again I don't let anyone video tape me or anyone who represents me be video taped. This is my rule,and if you can not respect it then it means you don't respect me. So at this point I see no reason to have any further discussion about meeting and exchanging ideas.

                        you should learn about proper Martial Etiquette or Mo Duk. To make such a demand without a proper relationship is IMO is improper.
                        I do not believe your demands to be honest and genuine. I know you have a agenda,and I will not allow you to use me to push your agenda.

                        My motives where and are simple. To meet one of your representatives and to share knowledge. This requires no video. Because your insisting on documenting the event shows you have other motives. In time perhaps if our two school became close I would allow you to video me,but without a proper relationship one based on trust this is not possible.

                        Your very wrong if you think I would be worried about me showing something wrong. I train all the time in public in NYC Chinatown and I take on all comers from every style!! I'm not worried in the least. I train with sifu who have 30,40 or more years in their respected style.What do you think your going to show me I have not seem or personally experienced??

                        So my last words are this..I't is sad it has to end this way. You had a chance to meet with me. I was more then welcome to meet one of your reps, but it seems all you really care about is trying to make me look bad so you can look good..I'm 51 years old I don't have time with childish behavior. I perfer to spend my time training,and spreading what little I know in my style. Not arguing with people who are rude,inconsiderate so as to push their own agenda for their own purpose.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Sifu Michael,

                          It is your opinion that we have done something wrong, or something to violate Wu De, martial etiquette, or Mo Duk, martial morality.

                          It is our opinion that we act righteously, not only to pass along the Shaolin Arts, but in this case, to save you or your students, or theirs, from potential harm.

                          No one is "forcing you" to do anything, or "pushing demands" on you. In fact, you playing the victim here is a little unbecoming. You are free to do as you like.

                          Again, our motives are simple: to demonstrate, (through a demonstration), that your techniques are bad, that they leave you open to a potentially maiming attack. You are not willing to admit it--though maybe you are starting to see it--so video proof is a perfect solution. Don't worry, no one will force you to make a video with us, but since you have posted these dangerous techniques on our school forum, it is our duty to show that they are incorrect.

                          It's not about making you look bad, as you suggest. We are happy for you to look as good as you want. We would like you to look better. (Does that sound bad?) We are simply responding to your video, and offering our teaching.

                          So you have said you have made your final statement here. We can respect that. No one will insist on you making any further posts. We will have to find some other way to make our points clear.

                          I hope you enjoy your training, and hope it brings you many benefits.

                          Yours,

                          Charles
                          Last edited by Charles David; 14 January 2015, 08:04 AM.
                          Charles David Chalmers
                          Brunei Darussalam

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                            you should learn about proper Martial Etiquette or Mo Duk.
                            This is a joke. You came to our Virtual Kwoon to publicise your teaching and school. We did not come to your Kwoon and try to teach your students. We offered to share (with video proof) for mutual benefit. You agreed and then, when it came down to following through, you backed down.

                            Who needs to learn about Wu De?
                            Sifu Andrew Barnett
                            Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                            Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                            Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
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                            • #74
                              This week in class I recorded a video of the arm bar and head clinch to demonstrate how poor the clinch and arm bar are as a choice of technique in that situation, how easy they are to defend and how exposed you are in doing them.

                              You can see the video here;



                              I left out of the video the many responses we would usually do using Choe Family Wing Chun, which differ from the responses of Sifu Michael using his Wing Chun system.

                              Frankly, there would be no need to get out of the arm bar because you wouldn’t have been able to put it on in the first place. Many of our students, as well as the instructors would use the unbendable arm as a result of the internal force training we do. This is no joke or exaggeration! But for fun we would allow the arm bar to be put on to see what our responses would be.

                              Now that Sifu Michael is no longer willing to meet, has nothing to be taught and has had his ‘last words’ now is actually a good time to show you why the techniques are a bad choice.

                              I was going to post the video anyway before his exit so that the students or instructors that stepped up to the challenge, which of course was many, would be able to see what not to do, why the arm bar and clinch is a poor and low level technique and also some strikes that were available as a response.

                              The arm bar would have had to been put on properly, as the opponent did with me, and then try and use his neck clinch, instead of releasing as it is being put on, because that is far too easy. When the neck clinch was put on him he would have to throw the person to the ground as said, and not very simply throw them away as demonstrated in the video.

                              Never the less, this is a virtual kwoon where by visitors and students have an opportunity to explore their and our arts openly. Which is what we encourage. We are not saying we are the best fighters, but that we can use genuine Shaolin Kung Fu and Taijiquan to defend ourselves.

                              We are, and always will be open to learning more. It would be arrogant to think that we have seen or experienced it all, as Sifu Michael has done. I am happy and comfortable that even after 27 martial arts experience that I am still learning from my Sifu, my brothers and sisters, my students, others and life. I do not take it as an insult or shame that someone else is able to teach me something or help me increase my skills. When I started martial arts as regular training, as opposed to adhoc patterns I did 35 years ago, I accepted that this was a life journey of learning. I doubt that I yet seen everything! It takes openness to accept this.

                              The fact that Sifu Michael has ‘seen it all’ makes it all the more surprising that he chose the grappling platform to demonstrate such poor patterns for the scenario without stating or admitting that they were poor and leave you wide open.

                              Thank you Sifu Michael for giving us the opportunity. We wish you well in your teaching.
                              Tim Franklin

                              http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
                              A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

                              www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

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                              • #75
                                Dear Tim,

                                Thank you for sharing your great video which surely deserves a video frame for easier access here



                                It is obvious that countering the given situations can be handled in a much more elegant, efficient and most importantly a much safer way than initally demonstrate in the starting video of this thread.

                                Although the options you chose to demonstrate now are most basic, they all serve these requirements effortlessly.

                                Best wishes to everyone,

                                Leo
                                Sifu Leonard Lackinger

                                Shaolin Treasure House

                                Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

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