Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wing Chun grappling

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Sifu Michael,

    Obviously you are not going to come to Brunei, and probably not Switzerland, or Malaysia or the UK..., which is understandable. Tea and tropical vacations are nice, but not really the main focus of this thread.

    You have agreed to meet Sifu Angel Guillermo, from Puerto Rico in April, and possibly Sifus Adam Bailey and Chris Didyk in Florida at some unspecified time, but you have not yet responded to Sifu Matt Fenton, who better still, is a day trip away.

    I personally hope you will be able to arrange a mutually convenient time quite quickly, as I suspect many people, like me are both eager and curious to see the video here on our forum. As we have said, this is no grudge match, nor free sparring, just a controlled demonstration of techniques already laid out. I am confident this is a great opportunity for both our schools to enjoy a win-win situation.

    Incidentally, I did take the time to watch the video you posted. I'm glad to see you focusing on combat applications in your training (an aspect of kungfu that far too many schools ignore), but in addition to what Kevin has already pointed out, you do appear to neglect your stances.

    Not to shake the jar too much, but we've got a bit of an eager audience here guys. Can we get a little road trip sorted?

    Yours,
    Last edited by Charles David; 12 January 2015, 11:37 AM.
    Charles David Chalmers
    Brunei Darussalam

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Charles David View Post
      Not to shake the jar too much, but we've got a bit of an eager audience here guys. Can we get a little road trip sorted?
      Hahaha! Fair enough, brother Charles!

      Dear Sifu McIlwrath,

      As you have accurately pointed out, your video was a demonstration of a few possible techniques, and not free sparring. Sifu Kevin also pointed out several specific techniques - striking the groin during the image capture, leveraging the elbow off of the head to escape the hold during the image capture, and the openings created due to pulling your opponent's hand toward yourself (technique different than the image capture).

      We can easily practice these techniques/counters/counter counters(?)/etc. as a demo, without progressing into free sparring. It will be fun and beneficial for everyone.

      Let's set a date in February!

      -Matt

      Comment


      • #48
        Wing Chun Grappling

        Originally posted by Adam B View Post
        Dear Sifu Michael,

        It looks like you're already scheduled to meet up with Angel in April, but if you do make it to Florida, I would also love to try out techniques and counters. As Chris and I are both in St. Petersburg, it can be a two for one deal.

        All the best,
        Originally posted by Angel Guillermo View Post
        Dear Sifu Micheal,

        Thanks so much for your prompt reply. I am happy with the prospect of meeting with you and have some fun with our friendly exchange. As soon as I'm able to work more specific details about my trip to NYC into my schedule, I shall contact you, so to set the specifics of our meeting. Until then, may you have a wonderful day.

        Best Regards,
        Dear Sifu Michael,

        Greetings. Since our last communication, I noticed that many brothers and sisters from the US and abroad had expressed interest on trying out your techniques. According to your last message, April was fine for me to travel to meet but from your response to my brother Adam from Florida, I understand there is a change of plans. So, April is not an option anymore? I am a bit disappointed, for is very difficult for me to travel earlier, and the prospects of trying out your techniques was very exciting. is there any possibility to keep the appointed dates? In any case, which dates suits you best?

        Best Regards,
        [/SIGPIC] Sifu Ángel Pérez
        Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


        "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
        - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

        "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
        - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Angel Guillermo View Post
          Dear Sifu Michael,

          Greetings. Since our last communication, I noticed that many brothers and sisters from the US and abroad had expressed interest on trying out your techniques. According to your last message, April was fine for me to travel to meet but from your response to my brother Adam from Florida, I understand there is a change of plans. So, April is not an option anymore? I am a bit disappointed, for is very difficult for me to travel earlier, and the prospects of trying out your techniques was very exciting. is there any possibility to keep the appointed dates? In any case, which dates suits you best?

          Best Regards,
          I really don't know what date is best. If your in NYC just let me know ahead of time and we can meet say in Chinatown.

          Comment


          • #50
            Dear Sifu McIlwrath,

            Thank you for your response.

            Originally posted by stonecrusher69;
            I just want to clear something up.first my video is a demo,not a sparring match.It was used to show a few simple things. Also,any technique can be countered. It all depends on many factors if a technqiue is going to work or not.My video is a demo so it should not be taken the way, It was pointed out in my video at a certain point of the video I was exposed for certain attacks and I agree but again this is a demo not a fight.I think not is not clear!! if I was fighting this person he would not even get that far.As soon as he went for the underhook my fist would be traveling twords his face. He would not likey get that far. I hope this clears this up.
            I think we all agree that any technique can be countered, and I think we are all aware of the "if you did that, I'd just do this" back-and-forth that can sometimes distract from the main points we are trying to make. But don't you agree that some counters in some situations are simply poor choices? Let's take an exaggerated, comical example: I propose that one way to counter a hook punch is to stand in place and throw your head straight forward. As moving your head will throw off your opponent's range, there is no need to engage your own hands -they can remain by your side.

            I may be able to occasionally use this counter effectively, somehow avoiding both the hook and smashing my face into my opponent. But because it's both risky and dangerous, and there are several much more suitable counters available, it is simply a poor counter, regardless of what might happen afterwards or whether I mean it as a trap. So why bother with it?

            We are saying that responding to the arm lock with the head grab move as shown in your video is a poor counter. It is a relatively slow counter that requires precise timing while also not properly guarding your opponent. You say yourself that you prefer other counters to the arm lock, so, demo or not, why not show one of them instead? Is there a specific Wing Chun principle that the head grab counter demonstrates that you wanted to show?


            Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
            There is a change I might be going to visit some family in Sanford FL but not sure when.Its just a matter of money for me and free time.I'm not sure how far you are from Sanford.I will be there a few days.if I go I will surely post it to let you know...
            Sanford is by Orlando, right? It's probably a 2 hour drive between there and St. Petersburg at most, which is good. I know your trip there is tentative, but do you have any idea of when it might take place? I'd like to make sure I keep some time open for us to get together. (Adam probably does, too.)

            I see this as a win-win. If you show me that your counter is not as poor as I believe, I gain direct experience of its effectiveness and my kung fu understanding is broadened. If I show you that it is poor, you gain direct experience as to why and your kung fu understanding is broadened. Either way, I think it will be interesting and a lot of fun, and we can chat about kung fu over drinks afterwards.
            Chris Didyk
            Shaolin Wahnam USA


            Thank You.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
              Me too. As an interesting (I think) side note, you will have heard some people say that to get a good guinness you have to drink it in Ireland. Well on one of my visits to Malaysia to train with Sifu, me and a couple of kungfu brothers had been wandering around the local restaurants and bars looking for our friends, and finally we found them sitting in the lovely bar upstairs of the Bulgarian restaurant in Penang. As we walked around to take up our stools beside them, one of them said to me "Hey you should try the guinness here, it's awesome!" I said, thinking he was pulling my leg "Yeah sure, I bet it's great!" thinking he was making a joke ie how could guinness be any good in a Bulgarian bar in Malaysia, right? Then I saw he had three quarters of a pint of it in front of him and told me to try it, it was his second or third. I did and it was genuinely awesome! Ah, takes me back.

              Back to the kungfu, on a more serious note, I wasn't joking when I said that I think I would struggle using wing chun against someone your size, and that I haven't yet realised anything within wing chun which makes it advantageous for a small person, as is often mooted. That includes within the types of wing chun that I have practised, but also from looking at your style, your training partners are usually a lot smaller than you, and when I watch you apply a technique on them it works, but you are tall and burly, they are small and slight, and in most cases it looks to me that if they tried it on you, it wouldn't work. What's your opinion on that, how much does physical size matter in your style?

              In our style of wing chun too, I would be interested to hear any differing views from within our school too, or any counter-explanations, but the same applies. I can not think of any move where I think "That would be good for a small person versus a big person" or "That move would be better for a small person". For example I have heard people say things like "In X style, you have to deliver powerful punches, so it suits people with size, muscles or lots of internal force, whereas in Y style you can do things like poke people in the eyes, or go for their peaches instead". Fair enough except that a tall person can go for the eyes or the peaches even more easily than a small person can, due to the difference in reach.

              The exceptions start of course with our Sifu. He has so much force that he can make any style work. Of course we all aspire to that, but I try to find what the best thing to do practically in the mean time is. Other exceptions are some of our instructors and more advanced / skillful practitioners, some of them can probably beat lesser skilled people who are bigger sized than them. But this is through skill, rather than employing certain techniques which are better for smaller people.

              As an analogy, in boxing I was able to beat people bigger than me, as long as my skill level was considerably higher. Same for plenty of other boxers. But I could also identify within that a couple of elements that don't just depend on skill, but are genuinely advantageous for smaller boxers. One is that a taller boxer's punches tend to hit you on the top of the head, eyes and forehead, which whilst unpleasant, is less likely to knock you out, whereas a small boxer hitting up at a larger one is more likely to connect around the jaw. The other is that a smaller boxer can have the advantage "inside" ie up close, if you get to the range where you can punch at your perfect distance, but he is stuck too close to throw straight punches, but too far away to get proper leverage on his hooks. That said, there are still more advantages to being big hence the saying in boxing "A good big un will beat a good little un."
              A lot of questions..As far size, does it matter? if all else is equal then yes sizes matters the most. If am a big rock and your a small rock you lose. In a fight there are many factors that decide victory such as, Size, strength, speed, technical prowess, fighting experience, physical conditioning, mental focus under pressure. All these factors matter in a real fight..not just size.

              Wing Chun is a very good style for a small person or any person because you can use it right away at the first lesson.Not many styles can say that.Fighting is ssimple and direct.No fancy moves or mysteries just hard work,. If you could meet with me I could show you,its very difficult by words only.

              Comment


              • #52
                Dear Sifu Michael,

                Back on our forum, I just recognized the opportunity of trying out the effectiveness and test the weaknesses of your recommended counters with you.

                My busy schedule and my newly born son don’t allow me to travel abroad at the moment, but if you come across Austria, let me know to exchange some techniques in a friendly setting followed by a cup of tea!

                Best regards,

                Leo
                Sifu Leonard Lackinger

                Shaolin Treasure House

                Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                  A lot of questions..If you could meet with me I could show you,its very difficult by words only.
                  We recall your original offer to show us, and since Matt has said
                  Let's set a date in February!
                  It's not a question of could, just a question of exactly when and where.

                  Yours,

                  Charles
                  Charles David Chalmers
                  Brunei Darussalam

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    The Harder they Come

                    Sifu Michael,

                    Regarding size, it appears that Matt is roughly approximate to you, though, in our philosophy and understanding, that should not matter.

                    Recall:

                    Technique overcomes strength; force overcomes technique, speed overcomes force, the marvellous beats all!


                    Again,

                    Charles
                    Charles David Chalmers
                    Brunei Darussalam

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Grimlock View Post
                      Dear Sifu McIlwrath,

                      Thank you for your response.



                      I think we all agree that any technique can be countered, and I think we are all aware of the "if you did that, I'd just do this" back-and-forth that can sometimes distract from the main points we are trying to make. But don't you agree that some counters in some situations are simply poor choices? Let's take an exaggerated, comical example: I propose that one way to counter a hook punch is to stand in place and throw your head straight forward. As moving your head will throw off your opponent's range, there is no need to engage your own hands -they can remain by your side.

                      I may be able to occasionally use this counter effectively, somehow avoiding both the hook and smashing my face into my opponent. But because it's both risky and dangerous, and there are several much more suitable counters available, it is simply a poor counter, regardless of what might happen afterwards or whether I mean it as a trap. So why bother with it?

                      We are saying that responding to the arm lock with the head grab move as shown in your video is a poor counter. It is a relatively slow counter that requires precise timing while also not properly guarding your opponent. You say yourself that you prefer other counters to the arm lock, so, demo or not, why not show one of them instead? Is there a specific Wing Chun principle that the head grab counter demonstrates that you wanted to show?




                      Sanford is by Orlando, right? It's probably a 2 hour drive between there and St. Petersburg at most, which is good. I know your trip there is tentative, but do you have any idea of when it might take place? I'd like to make sure I keep some time open for us to get together. (Adam probably does, too.)

                      I see this as a win-win. If you show me that your counter is not as poor as I believe, I gain direct experience of its effectiveness and my kung fu understanding is broadened. If I show you that it is poor, you gain direct experience as to why and your kung fu understanding is broadened. Either way, I think it will be interesting and a lot of fun, and we can chat about kung fu over drinks afterwards.
                      Ok sounds like fun..not sure when I will be in sanford but I will let you know as soon as I bookmy flight. I'm not so sure how I might go to your place. I will be relying on my family for transportation,but if your not to far away I might be able to borrow their car,

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Charles David View Post
                        We recall your original offer to show us, and since Matt has said

                        It's not a question of could, just a question of exactly when and where.

                        Yours,

                        Charles
                        It's a bit confusion,so many people chiming in..anyone can come to NYC to visit me.just give me the heads up and we can meet up. It does not have to be so formal.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                          It's a bit confusion,so many people chiming in..anyone can come to NYC to visit me.just give me the heads up and we can meet up. It does not have to be so formal.
                          Well Sifu Matt has offered to meet with you next month so here's to a new video next month!

                          All the best,

                          Kevin

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post
                            Well Sifu Matt has offered to meet with you next month so here's to a new video next month!

                            All the best,

                            Kevin
                            I look forward to meeting with Sifu Matt next month...I hope this will lead to a friendship and a positive learning experience for the both of us.

                            As a general rule I can not allow any video taping as I have complete control over my intellectual property which my be used to in a an appropriate manner.,

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                              I look forward to meeting with Sifu Matt next month...I hope this will lead to a friendship and a positive learning experience for the both of us.

                              As a general rule I can not allow any video taping as I have complete control over my intellectual property which my be used to in a an appropriate manner.,
                              Sifu Michael,

                              Recording the friendly try-out session with an instructor from Shaolin Wahnam, and subsequently posting the video here in the forum, was was part of the proposal to which you agreed to participate in last Sunday. It was clearly articulated in my post.

                              Why are you now reneging on the agreement?

                              All the best,

                              Kevin

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                                As a general rule I can not allow any video taping as I have complete control over my intellectual property which my be used to in a an appropriate manner.,
                                Even though the sentence is grammatically "difficult", I am sure you meant that you continue to accept all of the conditions you originally accepted (as noted by Sifu Kevin) but would not agree to anyone compromising any IP you may possess. As video recording (I'm sure we wouldn't suggest tapes any more) of an exchange of Martial Arts experiences (which are already in the public domain anyway) has nothing to do with IP, I am quite sure you continue to having no objections to the said video record of the exchange(s). After all, this was about comparing opinions regarding a technique that you chose to publicly present in the Virtual Kwoon of another Kung Fu school (ours).

                                Had you considered the technique and/or its efficacy part of your IP, I am sure you would never have chosen to video it and publicise it, would you?

                                Originally posted by Wikipedia
                                [Intellectual property (IP) is a legal term that refers to creations of the mind. Examples of intellectual property include music, literature, and other artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs. Under intellectual property laws, owners of intellectual property are granted certain exclusive rights. Some common types of intellectual property rights (IPR) are copyright, patents, and industrial design rights; and the rights that protect trademarks, trade dress, and in some jurisdictions trade secrets. Intellectual property rights are themselves a form of property, called intangible property.
                                Sifu Andrew Barnett
                                Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                                Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                                Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
                                Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X