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  • Wing Chun grappling


  • #2
    Dear Sifu Michael,

    I have never practiced Wing Choon so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment on your video.

    I note however that for a number of the counters you demonstrate you appear to be quite exposed - i.e. you are not covering yourself and leave yourself quite open. See for instance a screen grab from the video reproduced below which illustrates quite well your crotch area being quite open to your opponent's punch.

    Is this a concern to you?

    All the best,

    Kevin

    Screen Shot 2014-12-30 at 02.35.09.jpg

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post
      Dear Sifu Michael,

      I have never practiced Wing Choon so perhaps I'm not best placed to comment on your video.

      I note however that for a number of the counters you demonstrate you appear to be quite exposed - i.e. you are not covering yourself and leave yourself quite open. See for instance a screen grab from the video reproduced below which illustrates quite well your crotch area being quite open to your opponent's punch.

      Is this a concern to you?

      All the best,

      Kevin

      [ATTACH]5959[/ATTACH]

      Hello Kevin,

      I'm not concerned as this is not actual combat but a demo. Actually your body at any giving point is always open somewhere the key is to know where it is open and be able to close it quickly.In Wing Chun at a higher level we leave our self open at times, but this is only a trap to lure our opponent in so we know where he is going to attack then we can counter quckly.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think this is an interesting question on many videos and not always with a clear answer. I have seen many times even in our school, an example I remember occurring on an Intensive Taijiquan course some years ago where Sifu was doing a boxing counters demonstration with Piti, where the front/left/jab arm was being dealt with, but from my perspective it seemed to me that Sifu was wide open for the backhand/right cross, and have seen many similar situations when looking at pictures, videos or demonstrations in courses.

        However I have then had the chance to try the same thing with Sifu or other instructors and found that they could then change/respond to the right cross in those circumstances, or sometimes I didn't understand that in reality they had for example such a grip on the left hand or somewhere else that they could fell or unbalance my whole body when I went to throw the right for example.

        Other times, there probably was an opportunity to strike with the right hand, but just like Sifu Michael says here this is because a move is being shown in a certain way for demonstration.

        Comment


        • #5
          Safety First , Demo & Fight , Opening & Luring

          Dear All ,

          Valid point by Drunken Boxer .

          Nevertheless , generally speaking , Sifu Kevin Barry is alluding to the " Safety first " principle and " Sparring mind-set is same as Fighting mind-set" principle as elaborated by Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit in this Q&A Link



          As for the " Feign Opening" Tactic here is link to pictures series showing just that

          A selection of answers provided by Sifu Wong Kiew Kit to questions asked by the public on Shaolin Kungfu, Chi Kung, Taijiquan and Zen


          .....and it is already taught and practiced at our Basic Shaolin Kungfu Combat Sequence 9 as shown in the video footage titled " Tempt opponent to respond "



          Happy New Year 2015 and Cheers with Chi .
          Last edited by Damian Kissey; 2 January 2015, 01:26 PM.
          Damian Kissey
          Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
          www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you Dr Damian Sipak, Sifu Michael and Paul for the comments and also for the interesting links from Sigung's website.

            I can appreciate that demo videos are not real fights and that their main objective is to illustrate an aspect of Kung Fu to the audience which may involve a reduced sense of realism in the techniques being displayed. But surely demo videos should not ignore the fundamentals. And surely demo videos should not advise a technique which leaves the practitioner in a potentially dangerous situation.

            In my opinion the counter highlighted in my post (which occurs at 3m 44s in the video) is a poor one and I cannot think of any scenario in a so called real fight where the counter, or a modified version of it, would be advised as the Wing Choon practitioner is very exposed when executing the counter - his crotch is wide open to a hand strike and a knee jab and probably a kick as well. Dr. Damian Sipak has articulated the point I didn't spell out in my post: the counter does not follow the fundamental principle of safety first. So while acknowledging it is a demo, I cannot see how the counter can be used without inviting great risk to the Wing Choon practitioner.

            All the best,

            Kevin

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post
              Thank you Dr Damian Sipak, Sifu Michael and Paul for the comments and also for the interesting links from Sigung's website.

              I can appreciate that demo videos are not real fights and that their main objective is to illustrate an aspect of Kung Fu to the audience which may involve a reduced sense of realism in the techniques being displayed. But surely demo videos should not ignore the fundamentals. And surely demo videos should not advise a technique which leaves the practitioner in a potentially dangerous situation.

              In my opinion the counter highlighted in my post (which occurs at 3m 44s in the video) is a poor one and I cannot think of any scenario in a so called real fight where the counter, or a modified version of it, would be advised as the Wing Choon practitioner is very exposed when executing the counter - his crotch is wide open to a hand strike and a knee jab and probably a kick as well. Dr. Damian Sipak has articulated the point I didn't spell out in my post: the counter does not follow the fundamental principle of safety first. So while acknowledging it is a demo, I cannot see how the counter can be used without inviting great risk to the Wing Choon practitioner.

              All the best,

              Kevin
              At that time frame my opponent structure is compromised. If he tries to strike me I can easy throw him to the ground. If he tries to knee or kick me he would have only one leg to stand on compared to my two legs,and I could throw him to the ground.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dear Sifu Michael,

                Thank you again for your response.

                Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                At that time frame my opponent structure is compromised. If he tries to strike me I can easy throw him to the ground. If he tries to knee or kick me he would have only one leg to stand on compared to my two legs,and I could throw him to the ground.


                I very much disagree with this statement. You are very exposed, plain and simple. A straightforward punch to your groin would be quite easy (and very quick) for your opponent to execute.


                I also notice in your video how your counter some techniques by pulling your opponents arm to you. Are you not worried that this is inviting your opponent to strike you? A leopard fist to your ribs or a phoenix-eye fist to your solar plexus would cause much damage. And of the opponent knew dim mak, it could be most unfortunate.

                All the best,

                Kevin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi all,

                  I absolutely agree:
                  I very much disagree with this statement. You are very exposed, plain and simple. A straightforward punch to your groin would be quite easy (and very quick) for your opponent to execute.
                  Daniel Pérez
                  http://www.shaolinbcn.es

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post
                    Dear Sifu Michael,

                    Thank you again for your response.



                    I very much disagree with this statement. You are very exposed, plain and simple. A straightforward punch to your groin would be quite easy (and very quick) for your opponent to execute.


                    I also notice in your video how your counter some techniques by pulling your opponents arm to you. Are you not worried that this is inviting your opponent to strike you? A leopard fist to your ribs or a phoenix-eye fist to your solar plexus would cause much damage. And of the opponent knew dim mak, it could be most unfortunate.

                    All the best,

                    Kevin

                    One thing have learned from training in Martial Arts is this. One can not fight with mere words. What I mean is it's easy to say I could do this and he could have done that but in reality you don't know until you try. I would never say I could hit you there because your exposed to this attack. it's not that simple.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                      One thing have learned from training in Martial Arts is this. One can not fight with mere words. What I mean is it's easy to say I could do this and he could have done that but in reality you don't know until you try. I would never say I could hit you there because your exposed to this attack. it's not that simple.
                      Dear Sifu Michael,

                      Thank you again for your post. We are in total agreement that one cannot fight with words. And I'm sure that we are also in agreement with the wisdom of Sitaigung: “Kungfu is for fighting”.

                      I have stated that the technique you demonstrated leaves one exposed and, as a consequence, is dangerous and not recommended in any context. You have disagreed with my point of view which of course is perfectly fine.

                      In Shaolin Wahnam, we walk our talk. I think the best way to illustrate my point about being exposed is not through more words but instead through a friendly training session between yourself and a student of Shaolin Wahnam.

                      To illustrate the point I have made, A Shaolin Wahnam student will lock your arm as shown in the video. Personally I believe that if pressure is applied to elbow, you will be unable to simply hold the student’s head as shown in the video. You achieved this in the video because your opponent was being cooperative.

                      Suppose however you succeed in holding the student’s head as shown. I firmly believe that in this scenario the student will easily have the opportunity to strike your groin or any part of your body. As I said in my previous post, you are exposed, plain and simple. And this is dangerous.

                      As I mentioned in my previous post, pulling an opponents hand towards oneself is also dangerous. Perhaps this can also form part of the friendly training session. IT would be interesting to see what opportunity a non cooperative opponent might make of you pulling his or her hand towards your face!

                      The friendly training session can be recorded and posted here. Afterwards, we all sit and drink tea together.

                      Please note that it is a policy of our school not to challenge others and this post is not in anyway such a challenge. The post is also not in any way an invite to a free sparring match. It is simply an opportunity for a friendly try out of techniques between people who have a different point of view on the efficacy of particular techniques. It is also an opportunity for you to make another video. If you agree to, I am sure many Shaolin Wahnam students (not instructors) will take the opportunity. It all promises to be good fun!

                      All the best,

                      Kevin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kevin_B View Post


                        Dear Sifu Michael,

                        Thank you again for your post. We are in total agreement that one cannot fight with words. And I'm sure that we are also in agreement with the wisdom of Sitaigung: “Kungfu is for fighting”.

                        I have stated that the technique you demonstrated leaves one exposed and, as a consequence, is dangerous and not recommended in any context. You have disagreed with my point of view which of course is perfectly fine.

                        In Shaolin Wahnam, we walk our talk. I think the best way to illustrate my point about being exposed is not through more words but instead through a friendly training session between yourself and a student of Shaolin Wahnam.

                        To illustrate the point I have made, A Shaolin Wahnam student will lock your arm as shown in the video. Personally I believe that if pressure is applied to elbow, you will be unable to simply hold the student’s head as shown in the video. You achieved this in the video because your opponent was being cooperative.

                        Suppose however you succeed in holding the student’s head as shown. I firmly believe that in this scenario the student will easily have the opportunity to strike your groin or any part of your body. As I said in my previous post, you are exposed, plain and simple. And this is dangerous.

                        As I mentioned in my previous post, pulling an opponents hand towards oneself is also dangerous. Perhaps this can also form part of the friendly training session. IT would be interesting to see what opportunity a non cooperative opponent might make of you pulling his or her hand towards your face!

                        The friendly training session can be recorded and posted here. Afterwards, we all sit and drink tea together.

                        Please note that it is a policy of our school not to challenge others and this post is not in anyway such a challenge. The post is also not in any way an invite to a free sparring match. It is simply an opportunity for a friendly try out of techniques between people who have a different point of view on the efficacy of particular techniques. It is also an opportunity for you to make another video. If you agree to, I am sure many Shaolin Wahnam students (not instructors) will take the opportunity. It all promises to be good fun!

                        All the best,

                        Kevin

                        Hello sifu kevin,


                        Sure,I would happy to meet with one of your representatives as long as he is a Sifu from your organization.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Everyone Learns!

                          I like the proposal!

                          Whatever the outcome, it will be a great learning opportunity.

                          I haven't previously watched that video, or any of your others, but I will now make a little time to do so.

                          I am happy to volunteer for the demo, but I suspect that Borneo is a little far away. A tropical waterfall would make a nice backdrop though. Sifu Michael, you are welcome to come and visit us here in Brunei. I'm working for the next few months, but should be able to set you up with something nice.

                          Happily,

                          Charles
                          Charles David Chalmers
                          Brunei Darussalam

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
                            Hello sifu kevin,


                            Sure,I would happy to meet with one of your representatives as long as he is a Sifu from your organization.
                            Dear Sifu Michael,

                            I'm sure any of our Instructors would be happy to meet with you to have a fine cup of tea and chat kungfu, or push hands/ask bridges, or whatever is required to demonstrate the differences in our philosophy, tactics and techniques.

                            Travel distances make it impractical in most cases. I'm from Glasgow, Scotland myself but occasionally travel. If you are attending any martial arts meets or travel for work you could let us know.

                            Best Regards,
                            Sifu Andy Cusick

                            Shaolin Wahnam Thailand
                            Shaolin Qigong

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                            "a trained mind brings health and happiness"
                            - ancient wisdom

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                            • #15
                              Dear Sifu Michael,

                              You are also welcome to Taiwan.

                              I have connections with the local Zen monastery. They have gardens and parks suitable for a nice demonstration. I can get you a discount on accomodation and show you around the valley and mountain areas.

                              Sincerely,

                              Mark Blohm

                              P.S. Taiwan is known for its high mountain tea.
                              少林華南台灣 Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan

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                              "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

                              -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

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