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Siu Lin Tao- 1st section explanation of the Pak Sao movements

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  • Siu Lin Tao- 1st section explanation of the Pak Sao movements


  • #2
    What We Do in Our Wing Choon

    Dear everyone,

    I have not attended a Choe Family Wing Choon course of Sifu yet, but I would like to comment on the above video, based on my general understanding of kung fu principles.

    Kung Fu techniques are always based on a stance and are executed using waist rotation to minimize the amount of force necessary. These principles should therefore be valid for the technique “Pak Sau” or Slap-Hand too.

    Another very important principle is “safety first”. In Sifu McIlwrath’s video the hand on the neck is left unattended. Therefore the aggressor could easily poke his eyes. Also, after the Slap-Hand, the attacking hand is still way too close to feel safe. An advanced practitioner could exploit this situation easily.


    Here you can see how Sifu and Robin Siheng practice the pattern “Pak Sau” using those fundamental principles:



    By proper waist rotation which is emphasized from the beginning of our training in Shaolin Wahnam, the attacking hand is deflected away far enough while using a minimum amount of force. The defender is safe, even if the attacker used full force.

    Best wishes,

    Leo
    Sifu Leonard Lackinger

    Shaolin Treasure House

    Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Leo Shaolin View Post
      Dear everyone,

      I have not attended a Choe Family Wing Choon course of Sifu yet, but I would like to comment on the above video, based on my general understanding of kung fu principles.

      Kung Fu techniques are always based on a stance and are executed using waist rotation to minimize the amount of force necessary. These principles should therefore be valid for the technique “Pak Sau” or Slap-Hand too.

      Another very important principle is “safety first”. In Sifu McIlwrath’s video the hand on the neck is left unattended. Therefore the aggressor could easily poke his eyes. Also, after the Slap-Hand, the attacking hand is still way too close to feel safe. An advanced practitioner could exploit this situation easily.


      Here you can see how Sifu and Robin Siheng practice the pattern “Pak Sau” using those fundamental principles:



      By proper waist rotation which is emphasized from the beginning of our training in Shaolin Wahnam, the attacking hand is deflected away far enough while using a minimum amount of force. The defender is safe, even if the attacker used full force.

      Best wishes,

      Leo
      In the Siu Lin Tao level one does not use waist power one must learn the Facing princilple first then later use waist. Of course I use my waist but I'm teaching a beginner level. You don't understand Ip Man Wing Chun.Your style of wing chun does not apply to my style..

      Comment


      • #4
        Your style of wing chun does not apply to my style..
        Yes, this is obvious.

        Of course I use my waist but I'm teaching a beginner level.
        In Shaolin Wahnam students learn to move with the 3 external harmonies (legs, waist, hands) right from the start. The 3 internal harmonies (jing, chi, shen) follow straight after. We regard the 6 harmonies as essential and fundamental principles. Therefore we assure that they are employed at the fundamental, beginner’s stage already.

        I know from direct experience that re-programming movement habits after some time is far more difficult than learning their complete and exact execution straight away in a systematic manner.

        As I said, I don’t have personal training in any Wing Choon style, but I know that its advantage lies in overcoming stronger opponents using a minimum amount of strength. From Shaolin Kung Fu and Tai Chi Chuan I know that waist rotation is essential in achieving this.

        Making sure to be safe at any time, like neutralizing a dangerous neck grip, is another important point in our training. So I’m quite surprised to find that these principles are not employed in other styles right from the start too.

        Just out of curiosity, how would you release the neck grip at the intermediate and advanced stage?

        Best wishes,

        Leo
        Sifu Leonard Lackinger

        Shaolin Treasure House

        Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi all!

          I couldn't resist this very interesting thread, just wanted to share my experiences learning the pak sau within the Siu Lim Tau curriculum of Ip Man Wing Chun in the lineage of Grandmasters Ip Chun and Ip Ching.

          When comparing this system of kung fu to the Shaolin Kung fu of our school I found it quite similar in methods of safe coverage, and redirection of force.

          There were two classes focusing just on pak sau and its applications and the ways it can be used with the other motions in Wing Chun, mostly tan sau and huen sau. I remember there being one drill at first where we just used a static goat stance to refine the general movement of the Pak Sau, then right after we learned how to turn to shift off the incoming force, or use sideways, and horizontal footwork to do the same if facing a very high level of incoming force, and did it this way from then on. It should be noted that the basic stances, footwork, and ways of using waist movement was first taught in the very beginning of the curriculum.

          At a slightly more advanced level I learned 6 different ways to apply a pak sau: Horizontal(to the inside of the arm), Horizontal(to the outside of the arm), downwards(great against a boxing jab), upwards(to the elbow combined with a downwards pak to the wrist makes a great elbow break), forward(To open, close a guard), and backwards(To pull them into a strike and/or off balance them.) Each one seemed quite capable of redirecting force in useful ways when applied against the big people in the classes.

          Happy training and Shaolin Salute o\
          Shaolin Wahnam USA

          "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

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