Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mindfulness and thinking

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mindfulness and thinking

    This is for students or people who have to lots of knowledge work:
    When say working on a paper or solving a hard math problem (or even doing your taxes) do you "get lost" in the problem? Is that a lapse of mindfulness, in that you have lost awareness?
    What if one were to maintain conscious breathing while trying to solve the math problem or whatever? I remember Sifu Wong and some of his students saying that if reading they just read and not worry about whether they understand it or not and that was supposed to bring about much benefit. I'm going to be going back to school and perhaps I'm a bit too nervous about the whole thing?

  • #2
    Mindfulness/awareness

    Sunyata, in the verbage of the Diamond approach being is awareness itself.'Being' in a location is presence.Remaining present while living ones life is the main practice for many years.While watching tv or setting in a traffic jam.It's not easy but the effort alone shows one many things about ones ego mind.Getting lost in activitys per se is usually a lapse in presence.If you notice how the mind tightens up and makes a picture of what your thinking of and 'you' become the thoughts,you've been gone or not present in a way.There is also a loss of 'space', and masters forever have expounded on the importance of space and openness for interesting things to arise.I would venture that master wong is referring to not getting caught up in intellectualizing in what he's reading.When presence is very strong direct knowing is much more useful and makes for a much more relaxed head.This is all very simplified but suffice it to say that it's my experience you will do your very best at anything the more present you are.Now there are occasions where one will experience lapses that are actually periods of pure awareness thats pre-manifestation and theres nothing to remember and no one to remember it.But thats another story,Gusty

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with what you say. In the performance of an activity, self awareness-- does it reflect a lapse in mindfulness? You're aware of being in the midst of some activity but you lose one's concentration and one's ability to "be" the activity. But not lose self awareness to the point of distractedness, but to the point where actions you perform fall naturally where they go. A good example is watching Jimi Hendrix as goes into a guitar solo. Another good example is Sifu Wong operating a camcorder .
      But when you have to think, like speak to yourself or whatever one chooses to reason through a really tough problem...
      Mindfulness necssarily breaks down?

      Comment


      • #4
        mindfulness

        It is a matter actually of splitting attention for a long while.Example; i sense my arms and legs and be in my belly all the time.Yet i'm in a lecture from which i need to gain some imformation.My attention ,which is all i have any real control over[more so than hardly anyone thinks], is split.I sense my arms and legs,be in the kath[dan tian] and also allow some of my attention to focus outward.Yet not giving up my presence no matter what their saying, i can gain nothing by totally losing myself.When you see a really awake person being what may look engrossed in something, the only reason they seem so into it is because they are so 'there' ,so present.I have heard my teacher explain a hundred times, 'it only takes this much [holds small gap between fingers] of my attention to attend to life matters.' And like Master Wong he is a very productive person,yet never seems to be hurried.By being present there is space and true learning needs space,it's more fundamental then apparent things 'in' space.This loss of ourselves blinds us to many things.When asked about the apparent ugliness of the world my teacher only says ' the amount of sorrow in relation to the amount of magnificense is miniscule'.It's a question of who's looking and where from...got to run..gusty

        Comment


        • #5
          space

          Hey, do you think you could explain your discussion of space in the last few sentences? By being in space you mean attending to your body as it is situated in space?

          Comment


          • #6
            space

            Sunyata, the body situated in space is from the apparent perspective.Every 'thing' is in space and permeated by space,but if we look closer every thing is space to.There's no 'place' in space in actuality.For years i felt like space arose during meditation or practices and realized clearly only after 10yrs of deep work that space doesn't 'arise' the way it feels like it happens.I relax and then am aware of it,but it's always there.There only appear to be places in it.The ocean touches california and hawaii, yet it's just one ocean.All capacitys arise from this space,pure knowing/pure intelligence is one of them.So we stay present as we read or listen to a lecture.Presence is space, one is only really present when relaxed to a degree also.Space in our being allows the input of information without cutting us off from direct knowing.This is the best combo.Einstein spoke this very clearly when he spoke of moments of real illumination, or as some say seeing and thinking outside the box.One could say ya gotta have some space and allowing in ones' being to really explore outside the box.Tensing up and efforting only conjure up the stale mental information kind of knowing,genious comes out of nothingness, out of thin air in a way.But for it to be any use in apparent universe one has to learn the ordinary knowledge too, or , the illuminated still need an education..LOL....have to run, Gusty

            Comment


            • #7
              i dont think jimi hendrix on guitar is the best example seeing as he was probably on lsd and acid most of the time...
              oh and lol @ that pic of sifu wong looking into the camera its true he really seems absorbed with what hes doing
              from the ♥

              Comment


              • #8
                You're right, the state achieved by jimi wasn't at all mindfulness, it was wu-wei: I was listening to one of his jams (little wing or cherokee jam, one of the two) and just marveled at the fluidity of his riffs.
                Given that he could have been schwacked on multiple substances, I am reminded of this passage from the Zhuangzi. Roughly paraphrased, the sage talks about a drunk guy falling off the carriage, and remaining (relatively) unhurt. The sage goes on: if a drunk man can attain such unity of spirit with wine, imagine the unity of spirit attained from heaven! This is roughly paraphrased, and I'll go back and check this reference (using AC Graham's translation)
                In this case, I suppose he is talking about attaining a qigong state of mind. At any rate, JIMI RAWKS!!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi everyone,

                  if a drunk man can attain such unity of spirit with wine, imagine the unity of spirit attained from heaven!
                  I read the same story in a book on Zen, although my translation reads: "...if a man can attain such from wine, imagine what he can attain from spontaneity".

                  I can't remember exactly which book it was though. I just listened to Hendrix's recording of Johnny B. Goode: he does indeed rock!

                  Don

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've sometimes gotten into those states where I really get lost in a book, and I don't really think about anything but what I'm reading. I am keenly aware of the novel or whatever, but I lose awareness of other things, like whether or not I've missed my busstop!
                    Just be keenly aware of your every moment, and you may find it, first in a prosaic manner like the taste of bread or meaning of words, and later if you are ripe enough in a transcendental flash of cosmic glimpse.
                    from the link above.
                    With harder material I am keenly aware of my not being able to get something.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I posted an interesting talk by Bhikkhu Bodhidhamma on this subject in the following thread...



                      hth

                      Mike
                      "If you realised how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought." Peace Pilgrim.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        great article

                        Maybe I'm just too intellectuamalized but the distinction between self-awareness and mindfulness totally escaped me. The article made that much clear. At the same time, a sort of self monitoring is necessary. For instance, he says there are two ways you can lose yourself; either by something like watching a film or shooting the breeze with friends, or by meditation. Of course, I constantly "lose myself" when I'm trying to meditate/do stance training, but as a result of my monkey mind going about its monkeyish business. At the same time, some level of awareness/self-monitoring is needed to ensure that one-pointed mind is maintained.
                        from the article
                        This is what you’re trying to do when you meditate. When you meditate
                        and you sit,
                        watching the arising and falling of emotions or whatever it is, there is often
                        a feeling of an observer, of somebody watching. That is the same thing
                        happening as with the TV. There is a split. There are two
                        consciousnesses going on. First, the awareness of what you’re experiencing
                        and also the awareness of yourself being aware. That is not true vipassana.
                        Hmmmm, but then he says later
                        From that point you can see the intention arise - ‘intending to drink
                        coffee’, ‘intending to get on bus’ - just like you can in meditation. Then, just
                        drink the coffee, get on the bus, whatever. Just do it. Pleasure arises, but
                        there is not the grasping, there is not that misunderstanding that here true
                        happiness is to be found. It’s a subtle one, eh? But you have to work with
                        it. If you come off the base of right awareness...
                        it really is a subtle distinction. I imagine this is something that can only be transmitted "heart to heart"?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sunyata

                          I agree its a subtle one - I have read that article three times and I am still not confident that I have understood it all...

                          Mind you I like the analogy of watching oneself watching the tv that sticks in ones mind. Also the one about watching oneself in the process of addition.

                          As to heart-to-heart transmission Bhikku Bodhidhamma is a Theravadan monk. Theravadan Buddhism does not have any concept of gurus or transmission. So in this case there is no easy way out from either understanding it intellectually or sitting with it in meditation :-)

                          Also there's a lot of scope in these things for getting bogged down in one persons definition of mindful as against another person. One way that I find useful is to sidle up on the concept by considering it to be the opposite of doing something 'unmindfully'. The key point is I believe not to operate on 'autopilot' mode (as that can lead to unskilful actions).

                          rgds

                          Mike
                          "If you realised how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought." Peace Pilgrim.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Self-awareness and mindfulness

                            Hi guys!

                            I drew a picture from this distinction. This thing when your self-awareness disappears and only awareness on what you are doing (task) stays is called 'immersion' in media studies. In psychology, high level of self-awareness is found to correlate with high level of anxiety, it also decreases performance level by distracting thoughts from a current task. When technology for doing the task is poorly designed, or you are new on a techology, it will be hard to concentrate only on a task. These things have started to interest also engineers nowadays.

                            Best regards,
                            Panu
                            Best wishes,
                            Panu

                            Arriving at one goal is the starting point to another. (John Dewey)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Professor Ovidius

                              Great chart and great relating it to other spheres - if these ancient philosophies are useful it's because they relate things to the way they are (as opposed to a set of beliefs). Immersion seems a good phrase to help differentiate.

                              I note your point re of interest to engineers too - I think the best example that springs to mind is the Airbus - flies itself giving you little info and then when the proverbial hits the fan dumps a ton of info on you (or certainly used to which is why they had an inferior crash record to less completely-automated planes).

                              This correlation with anxiety is interesting - shooting from the hip I'd take a stab at it not applying in meditation type things? Certainly in vipassana (insight) meditation - which was the Buddha's key technical innovation - the whole focus is precisely on observing the processes which go to make up the apparent self.

                              There has been a lot of research (widely reported) coming out of the University of Wisconsin on proof that such meditation does actually reduce stress levels eg:



                              Anyway keep up the good work on those images - inspiring stuff and makes a change fomr the usual verbiage + smilies

                              rgds

                              Mike
                              "If you realised how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought." Peace Pilgrim.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X