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HUATO 5 ANIMAL PLAY - 10 Questions to Grandmaster Wong

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  • #16
    Dear Sifu,

    Two questions which I would like to ask crossed my mind.

    What are the additional benefits for students who have already the skills to for example generate the energy flow, to go into self-manifested-chi-movements, to activate a cosmic shower or any other advanced skill by learning the Five Animals Play?

    Could you please explain the processes or rather reasons which lead to these additional benefits?

    Thank you Sifu very much in advance for answering and Daniel Sihing, thank you to make the Q/A on that subject possible.
    "From formless to form, from form to formless"

    26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
    Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

    Website: www.enerqi.ch

    Comment


    • #17
      Thanks Sifu Daniel and Santiago!

      I am grateful for having this unique privilege to ask Sigung my question. Sorry if I'm asking about something obvious...

      Is 5 Animals Play a technique or a skill?

      I'm asking this because I wonder whether it is possible for someone who has already acquired the skill of having a Chi Flow to spontaneously perform one of the movements from 5 Animals Play in a vigorous Self-Manifested Movement.

      Thank you!!
      With Shaolin Salute
      Jacek

      Comment


      • #18
        Dear Jacek,

        Congratulations! Your Zen-style question pretty much points right to the core and sums up many questions posted before.

        Sifu might consider answering this one first. At least I'm very looking forward to the answer.

        Best wishes,

        Leo
        Sifu Leonard Lackinger

        Shaolin Treasure House

        Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

        Comment


        • #19
          Dear Jacek,

          Congratulations! Your Zen-style question pretty much points right to the core and sums up many questions posted before.

          Sifu might consider answering this one first. At least I'm very looking forward to the answer.

          Best wishes,

          Leo


          Dear Leo Sisook,

          Thank you for your kind comment. And I'm also looking forward to the answer

          All the best
          Jacek

          Comment


          • #20
            Dear all,

            I hope you find this thread as much enjoyable as me.

            Here comes the first and very interesting Sifu answer to your excellent questions:


            5-Animal Play Question 1 - Part 1
            Question 1


            Hua Tuo was a very advanced physician for his times but before he was executed, as the legend says, he burned all his books and not much knowledge of his treatments was left. I wonder how his Five Animal Play could survive. However I am happy it did.

            While the different movements were classified into five categories of Yin Organs (Liver, Heart, Lung, Spleen, Kidney), why did he not mention the Yang organs (Gallbladder, Small Intestine, Large Intestine, Stomach, Urinary Bladder)?
            And what exercises will suit a patient better if his main blockage is at a Yang Organ? Is it the directly coupled Yin organ or a different Yin Organ?
            For Example: someone has a Gallbladder blockage (presenting as Endometriosis), what will bring more benefits the Deer (Liver) or the Bear (Kidney)?

            Sifu Anton, Germany



            Answer


            Hua Tuo is honoured as a Sage of Chinese Medicine. He successfully performed surgical operation on the brain when bloodletting was the main and often only medical treatment in Europe.

            He resigned as an imperial physician despite its glory and wealth so as to serve the common people. But when Cao Cao, the Lord of Wei, was sick, he volunteered to help him. He suggested brain surgery to overcome Cao Cao’s neurological disorders, but thinking he was employed by a rival lord to kill him, Cao Cao imprisoned him.

            According to a legend, when he was in prison, his illiterate wife burned all his medical texts. When a prison warden arrived at the house, he could only save text on inoculation for chickens!

            I don’t know how true was the legend, but even if it were true, Hua Tuo’s medical teachings had been transmitted to his students even when all his medical texts except inoculation against chickens were burned. The Five-Animal Play could have survived in this way.

            There are two schools of thought regarding the techniques of the Five-Animal Play. According to one school, which was the orthodox until the emergence of the second school in fairly recent time, Hua Tuo observed the movements of the bird, the deer, the monkey, the tiger, and the bear, and used these movements as techniques for his Five-Animal Play.

            In another school, which gained more notice and importance from archaeological research, Hua Tuo taught various chi kung exercises, and his patients moved in various ways which can be classified into five characteristic groups named after the bird, the deer, the monkey, the tiger and the bear.

            Chinese doctors discovered that these five animals, which were different from the five animals in Shaolin Kungfu, related to various organs, as follows. The bird related to the heart, the deer to the liver, the monkey to the spleen, the tiger to the lungs, and the bear to the kidneys.

            Only the yin organs, namely liver, heart, lungs, spleen and kidneys, are mentioned in the Five-Animal Play because the yang organs, namely gall bladder, small intestine, colon, stomach and urinary bladder respectively, are counterparts or external manifestations of the yin organs. In other words, the gall bladder is the counterpart of the liver, and the small intestine is the counterpart of the heart. By attending to one, for example, a Chinese physician can also reach the other. If a patient has a heart problem, for example, a physician may cure him by treating the small intestine.
            Daniel Pérez
            http://www.shaolinbcn.es

            Comment


            • #21
              5-Amimal Play Question 1 - Part 2
              (Continued from Part 1)

              Presuming all other things being equal, when a patient has a blockage at a yang organ, it can be overcome by treating its corresponding yin organ rather than another yin organ, and vice versa. For example, if a patient has a gall bladder blockage, prescribing chi kung exercises that correspond to the deer, which relates to the liver, which in turn is the counterpart of the gall bladder, is more beneficial than prescribing exercises that correspond to the bear.

              But other things are not equal. If the gall bladder blockage is caused by insufficient energy in the kidneys, in other words the gall bladder blockage is a symptom but the cause is insufficient energy at the kidneys, then prescribing exercises that correspond to the bear, which relates to the kidneys, will be more beneficial.

              On the other hand, even when the cause is insufficient energy at the kidneys, but the symptom has become serious, like the resultant blockage at the gall bladder threatens life, the physician should remove the symptom first by prescribing exercises that correspond to the deer, which relates to the liver, which in turn is the counterpart of the gall bladder.

              This is the concept of branch and root, which represent symptom and cause. Normally the physician removes the root cause, but if the symptom has become life threatening, he should remove the branch first.

              How does a Chinese physician know all these intricate situations? He discovers them by a thorough diagnosis. Diagnosis is very important in Chinese medicine. If the diagnosis is correct, recovery is a matter of cause.

              Thus, after a thorough diagnosis, a Chinese physician employing the first school of thought of Five-Animal Play, will prescribe the appropriate exercises to overcome the illness. If the patient’s illness is caused by a blockage of the gall bladder meridian, the physician would prescribe exercises that resembles the movements of a deer. If the cause is insufficient energy at the kidneys resulting with gall bladder blockage as symptom, he would prescribe exercises resembling the movements of a bear.

              However, if the symptom is life threatening although the cause is at the kidneys, he will prescribe exercises resembling the movements of a deer. When the life-threatening symptom has been removed, he will prescribe exercises resembling the movements of a bear to treat the root cause.

              Nevertheless, and this may appear ridiculous to those not familiar with its underlying philosophy, for those who follow the second school of thought in the Five-Animal Play, diagnosis is not necessary! This is also the philosophy and practice we employ in our chi kung healing.

              If the cause of a patient’s illness is gall bladder blockage, irrespective of what chi kung exercises the Chinese physician may prescribe, including exercises that resemble the movements of a bear, the resulting chi flow movements of the patient will resemble those of a deer. If the cause of the illness is insufficient energy at the kidneys although this is manifested as gall bladder blockage as a symptom, irrespective of what exercises are prescribed, the patient’s chi flow movements will resemble the movements of a bear.

              If the symptom manifested as gall bladder blockage is life-threatening although the cause is at the kidneys, irrespective of what exercises are prescribed, the patient’s chi flow movements will resemble those of a deer.

              Why do the movements resemble those of a tiger and not those of a bear when the root cause is at the kidneys? It is because chi will always flow where it is needed most urgently. In the case of this patient, his most urgent need is to remove the life-threatening symptom at the gall bladder.

              Chi kung healing is most simple and profound. It does not matter what the illness is, what causes the illness, and what symptoms are manifested. When there is sufficient chi flow, in quantity as well as time, his illness will be overcome. It is not necessary but if a physician wishes to know for the sake of his curiosity, he may have a idea of the illness by observing the patient’s chi flow movements.
              Daniel Pérez
              http://www.shaolinbcn.es

              Comment


              • #22
                Thanks to Sigung for the answer!

                Chi kung healing is most simple and profound. It does not matter what the illness is, what causes the illness, and what symptoms are manifested. When there is sufficient chi flow, in quantity as well as time, his illness will be overcome. It is not necessary but if a physician wishes to know for the sake of his curiosity, he may have a idea of the illness by observing the patient’s chi flow movements.
                I especially like this part and it reminds me of the recent Healing course

                Thanks to Sigung for another Q&A and for sharing so much with us!
                Thanks to Daniel Sipak for the Thread!

                Best wishes,
                Evelyn

                Comment


                • #23
                  Dear Sigung,

                  thank you very much for your kind and insightful answer!

                  Hua Tuo must have been a genius!

                  Kindest regards, Anton.
                  Engage and maintain joyful practice!

                  May all of you get the best benefits from what you do.

                  Anton Schmick
                  Shaolin Wahnam Germany Nord

                  shaolinwahnamchina.com
                  http://chikunghamburg.wordpress.com
                  http://shaolinwahnam-nord.de
                  http://kungfu-luebeck.de

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: the quote mentioned by Sije Evelyn

                    Chi kung healing is most simple and profound. It does not matter what the illness is, what causes the illness, and what symptoms are manifested. When there is sufficient chi flow, in quantity as well as time, his illness will be overcome. It is not necessary but if a physician wishes to know for the sake of his curiosity, he may have a idea of the illness by observing the patient’s chi flow movements.
                    I like the idea that by practicing Chi Kung we can give ourselves daily acupuncture treatments. We don't need to know what points to treat, and we don't even need needles

                    Thank you Sigung
                    Jacek

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      5-Animal Play Question 3 - Part 1

                      Question 3

                      Kung Fu masters, martial art experts and generals who retired went to the Shaolin Temple for cultivation and due to their martial arts background they modified the 18 Lohan Hands to their needs which evolved into the 18 Lohan Art. Later it evolved into Lohan Kung Fu.

                      You mentioned that it was believed that the Monkey Kung Fu originated from the Five-Animals Play. How in your opinion did or could that happen?

                      Could it be a similar development like the 18 Lohan Hands where some masters with martial arts background and knowledge and experience of the Five-Animal Play modify the movements for their needs in combat?

                      The 12 Sinew Metamorphosis exercises, if I am correct, generate energy flow especially along the 12 primary meridians. In this sense, each exercise would correlate with a specific meridian.

                      Could you please elaborate the connection between the five major organs and meridians in relation to the Five-Animal Play?

                      Sifu Roland, Switzerland


                      Answer


                      The 18_Lohan Art and the 18-Lohan Fist, or 18-Lohan Kungfu, evolved from the 18-Lohan Hands independently. I believe the 18-Lohan Kungfu evolved from the 18 Lohan Hands first, before the 18-Lohan Art also evolved from the 18 Lohan Hands.

                      The 18 Lohan Hands continued to be practiced in the Shaolin Temple after the 18-Lohan Kungfu was evolved. In other words, bot the 18 Lohan Hands and the 18-Lohan Kungfu were practiced at the Shaolin Temple side by side.

                      Later the 18-Lohan Art evolved from the 18 Lohan Hands. So at this time all the three arts – 18 Lohan Hands, 18-Lohan Kungfu, and 18-Lohan Art – were practiced at the Shaolin Temple at the same time.

                      The 18 Lohan Hands were the most popular. All Shaolin monks practiced the 18 Lohan Hands. Next in popularity was the 18-Lohan Kungfu. All kungfu monks at the Shaolin Temple practiced the 18-Lohan Kungfu. Some monks at the Shaolin Temple were not kungfu monks. The 18-Lohan Art was secretive. It was available only to selected kungfu disciples.

                      There were many stylesof Monkey Kungfu. A few Monkey styles developed from the monkey movements of the Five-Animal Play, but other Monkey styles developed from other sources.

                      This could happen when some kungfu masters were sick or injured, they practice the Five-Animal Paly to overcome their sickness or injury. When they had recovered they incorporated these monkey movements into their kungfu as they found them effective for combat. Eventually these monkey movements evolved into Monkey styles. Yes, it was quite similar to the development of18-Lohan Kungfu from the 18 Lohan Hands.

                      It is worthwhile to mention that using chi flow to overcome sickness and injury is, and was, elite. Even masters do not, and did not , know how to do so. When they are sick or injured, they have to take medication, like herbs. In the past, if they were lucky, they might practiced Five-Animal Play from chi kung healers, who were rare, to overcome their sickness or injury.

                      From what I have read, chi kung healing in the past was unlike chi kung healing we practice in our school today. Chi kung healing in the past was thematic, and operated mainly at a physical level. A chi kung healer would prescribed specific chi kung exercises for specific diseases, and patients would have to practice for quite some time before they could experience chi flow. It was infrequent that such chi kung healing could overcome so-called incurable diseases.

                      Our chi kung healing is holistic and operates at the mind level. In fact, our chi kung healing is so powerful that often our chi kung healers have to lower the level of chi flow so that patients would not over-train. Our chi kung healing can overcome any diseases, including so-called incurable diseases, and our success rate is very high. In the recent Chi Kung Healing Course in Kuala Lumpur (March 2014), Dr Foong Tuck Meng told the class that the success rate, including with patients whose doctors had told them that they would die, was 100%!

                      Understandably, other people would think we are boastful, but I am just stating the truth. This results in two important points for us. One, we, especially those who have undergone training in our chi kung healing, are in a very privileged position to help people recover from so-called incurable diseases. I am quite certain that in the future our chi kung healing would be the norm in medicine. Two, at present we must accept the fact that most people, including conventional doctors and those who suffered from so-called incurable diseases, do not believe in our ability.
                      Daniel Pérez
                      http://www.shaolinbcn.es

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        5-Amimal Play Question 3 - Part 2

                        (Continued from Part 1)

                        The 12 Sinew Metamorphosis exercises may not necessarily generate energy flow along the 12 primary meridians. It was recorded that the Sinew Metamorphosis exercises as well as the 18 Lohan Hands flow at four levels; the level of the skin, the level of the flesh, the level of the bones, and the level of the bone marrow. In other words, when Shaolin monks practiced exercises from the 18 Lohan Hands and Sinew Metamorphosis, their energy would first flow along the skin, then along the flesh and bone and finally along the none marrow.

                        This would give the Shaolin monks good health physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually so that they could more effectively practiced sitting meditation to attain Enlightenment. When chi flowed along the none marrow, it generated a lot of internal force which was necessary for the monks to break through their illusionary physical body to merge with Cosmic Reality.

                        These effects of chi flow were collectively described as bone marrow cleansing. There has been a long debate, still extant today, whether Bodhidharma taught bone marrow cleansing. The debate occurred because the people involved did not differentiate between techniques and skills.

                        People believed that Bodhidharma taught the 18 Lohan Hands and Sinew Metamorphosis because the techniques of these two arts are clearly described. But there was no descriptions of the techniques for Bone Marrow Cleansing. In other words, these people did not know what Bone Marrow Cleansing techniques Bodhidharma taught.

                        When we understand the difference between skills and techniques, and that Bone Marrow Cleansing referred to skills and not techniques, we would know that there were no specific Bone Marrow Cleansing techniques because any techniques, when performed correctly and sufficiently, could produce the results of chi flowing at the skin, flesh, bone and bone marrow levels.

                        The Bone Marrow Cleansing taught in our school is different from the Bone Marrow Cleansing taught in the Shaolin Temple. In our school there are 5 levels of chi flow, namely along the skin, the flesh, the meridians, the internal organs and the bone marrow. At the Shaolin Temple, there were 4 levels of chi flow, namely at the skin, the flesh, the bones and the bone marrow.

                        Why do I teach 5 levels of chi flow. It is because it has been recorded by chi kung classics that chi would flow at these five levels. Some students may ask, which is correct, chi flowing at 4 levels or at 5 levels. Both are correct. It is a matter of choice. In principle it is like asking which is correct, driving on the right side of the road as in continental Europe, or on the left side of the road as in the United Kingdom, though many continental Europeans would call it the wrong side of the road. Both sides are correct. It is a matter of choice.
                        Daniel Pérez
                        http://www.shaolinbcn.es

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Thank you Sifu for the most interesting insight answers.

                          Thank you Daniel Siheng for prividing them.

                          Best regards,
                          "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                          26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                          Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                          Website: www.enerqi.ch

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thank you Sifu, Daniel and the questioners for the questions and answers.

                            Looking forward to more,

                            Best,

                            Jas

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              5-Animal Play Question 3 - Part 3


                              But in the case of the Five-Animal Play, why are there 5 animals, and not 4, 6 or any other number? Is it also a matter of choice?

                              No, here it is not a matter of choice. There are 5 animals because they represent 5 characteristic types of chi flow movements. Why are there 5 characteristic types and not any other number? It is because these different types of chi flow movements are manifested from five primary organs or their counterparts, and their respective meridians.

                              In Chinese medical philosophy there are 5 xang or storage organs, namely heart, liver, spleen, lungs and kidneys. These organs are regarded as yin, and their yang counterparts, which are 5 fu or transformational organs are small intestines, gall bladder, stomach, colon and urinary bladder. The pericardium and its yang counterpart, the triple-warmer, are also important organs, and they are grouped in the same category as the heart.

                              The energy from the five storage organs or its counterparts and their meridians results in characteristic chi flow movements. Energy from the heart, or its counterpart, the small intestines, and their meridians, i.e. the heart meridian and the small intestine meridian, as well as the pericardium, the triple-warmer, the pericardium meridian and the tri-le-warmer meridian, results in chi flow movements resembling a bird.

                              Energy from the liver and its counterpart, the gall bladder, and their meridians results in chi flow movements resembling a deer. Energy from the spleen, and its counterpart, the stomach, and their meridians results in chi flow movements resembling a monkey. Energy from the lungs, and theri counterpart, the colon, and their meridians results in chi flow movements resembling a tiger. Energy from the kidneys, and their counterpart, the urinary bladder, and their meridians results in chi flow movements resembling a bear.

                              Some people may ask why energy from the heart results in chi flow movements resembling a bird and not something else. It is the way of things. In principle it is like asking why a person with a viral infection has a fever. It is the way of things. Western doctors discovered that when a person had a viral infection, he had a fever. Chinese doctors discovered that energy from the heart resulted in chi flow movements resembling a bird.
                              Daniel Pérez
                              http://www.shaolinbcn.es

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                5-Animal Play Question 4 - Part 1

                                Question 4

                                Is there any relation between the "5-Animal Play Chi Kung" and our "Chi Flow"? If so, in which way the 5-Animal Play has contributed to the Chi Kung that is practiced in our School?

                                Santiago




                                Answer

                                As in many chi kung questions, depending on our point of reference, the answer can be “yes” or “no”. Further, the answer will also depend on what we mean my “chi flow”.

                                If our point of reference is historical, and by chi flow we mean what the term literally describes, there is no relation between Five-Animal Play and our Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung which, of course, generates a chi flow.

                                Five-Animal Play was invented by the great physician, Hua Tuo, who lived in the 2nd century. It was classified as medical chi kung. Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung developed in the Shaolin Temple, which was established in the 6th century, about 400 years later, and it was classified as martial art chi kung. There is, therefore, no relation in the historical development of our chi kung, which has chi flow, and Five-Animal Play.

                                Medical chi kung was regarded as “soft”, and was mainly employed for overcoming pain and illness. Interestingly, soft medical chi kung, like the Five-Animal Play, was generally described as external art, or wai gong. Martial art chi kung was regarded as “hard”, and was mainly employed for enhancing combat efficiency. Hard martial art chi kung, like Sinew Metamorphosis, was generally described as internal art, or nei gong.

                                Hence, from the perspective of their nature, characteristic and function, there is no relation between our chi kung, which has chi flow, and Five-animal Play. Our chi kung, Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung, is hard, internal and martial. Five-Animal Play is soft, external and medical. They have opposite features.

                                However, if we look at the historical development as well as the nature, characteristic and function not of Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung as a whole, but at the chi kung practiced in our school, which is still called Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung, we can answer yes, there is a relation between the Five-Animal Play and our chi flow.

                                Initially, external chi flow movements in our school were little, if at all. Much of the chi kung I originally taught in our school came from Sifu Ho Fatt Nam. My sifu, Sifu Ho Fatt Nam, did not encourage vigorous chi flow movements. Sometimes, there were some slight external chi flow movements, which were poetically described as “Flowing Breeze Swaying Willows”.

                                But undoubtedly there were a lot of internal chi flow movements. I could clearly felt internal chi flow when practicing One-Finger Shooting Zen and Small Universe. Even in external exercise like Thirty Punches, I could feel a lot of internal chi flow. But we did not call it chi flow, we called it internal force.

                                Chi flow, in the sense of self-manifested chi movement, became obvious when I started teaching chi kung to the public. In my early chi kung classes in Penang in the 1980s, for example, students moved about in vigorous external chi flow movements. A student, called Percy, hopped for about 15 minutes like a kangaroo. Soon he told me that his arthritis, or rheumatism as I cannot remember exactly, was overcome. Another student, whose name I cannot remember, suddenly put his hands onto his head with fingers pointed like antlers and ran about like a deer. In later classes, students wriggled about like snakes, and jumped about like monkeys.
                                Daniel Pérez
                                http://www.shaolinbcn.es

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