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The Yang 108 Pattern set - Valentine's 2014

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  • #16
    Another beautiful and traditional Tai Chi Chuan Set
    Lucky the students who can learn it in Ireland!

    Thank you Kevin for posting the two video edits of Yang Cheng Fu. They are very nicely done.
    The book also describes applications and I have another book with application pictures from this set/Yang Cheng Fu, which is also quite interesting, as many Yang practitioners do not learn applications.
    Luckily this is not a problem in our school.

    Best regards
    Andrea
    Last edited by Andrea; 23 November 2013, 01:07 PM.
    Enjoy some Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan & Qi Gong!

    Evening Classes in Zürich
    Weekend Classes in other Swiss locations


    Website: www.taichichuan-wahnam.ch
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Taichichuan.Wahnam.ch

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Nessa View Post
      Can't wait to start practicing! 😊
      Hi Nessa,

      I'm delighted to hear of you practicing the set. It is so fabulous and elegant, one could spend a lifetime training it and never cease in their development of skills in it.

      It would be really lovely to meet up and train with you and Markus again. Here's hoping that Valentine's 2014 is your intention in learning the set!

      Originally posted by Leo Shaolin View Post
      Here you can find Sifu performing our version of the set: http://www.shaolin.org/video-clips-8...8-pattern.html

      Thank you for linking to the set Leo. I should have done so in my original post.

      Is the Yang set in your repertoire?


      Originally posted by Andrea View Post
      Thank you Kevin for posting the two video edits of Yang Cheng Fu. They are very nicely done.
      The book also describes applications and I have another book with application pictures from this set/Yang Cheng Fu, which is also quite interesting, as many Yang practitioners do not learn applications.
      Luckily this is not a problem in our school.

      Thank you Andrea. I managed to pick up a copy of the book after posting the video. I haven't gone though it yet, but from a quick glance it looks great and, as you say, it has lots of nice applications. Some of the forms are noticeably different to our version of the set so it will be very interesting to ask Sigung about the set's evolution from Yang Cheng Fu to what Sigung will be teaching in February.

      All the best,

      Kevin

      Comment


      • #18
        Dear Kevin,

        No, the set is not in my repertoir. I love the condensed Cloud Hands Grasp Sparrow Set, but although I normally prefer long sets, the Yang 108 is not on top of my list.

        After an intensive Tai Chi Chuan year, next year's going to be a Shaolin year. I heard of some tigers, cranes and dragons to come.

        But I'm sure that I will pick up the set one day. You might show me what you learnt then.

        Best wishes,

        Leo
        Sifu Leonard Lackinger

        Shaolin Treasure House

        Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

        Comment


        • #19
          Dear family,

          I have some fabulous news!

          Sigung has very kindly penned an amazing answer to the question I posed on the forum last night! It is totally fab and affords us the opportunity for some good discussions on the Wonderful Yang 108 pattern set.

          Thank you so much Sigung! Your answer is hugely appreciated.


          The first part of Sigung's answer is below. Lets have some fun with answering the questions asked of us. I will post part two of Sigung's answer in a few days time!

          Very excited about next February now!!!


          Instead of telling you during Valentine 2014 the difference between our version and Yang Deng Fu’s version of the set, I thought I could do better by telling you now so that you can share the insights in the forum, which may further the lively discussion that your post has already started.

          For convenience, we may classified the differences into two groups, the obvious and the hidden, which is relative because these differences in the hidden group are also obvious to the initiated, like our happy Shaolin Wahnam family members.

          There are three main differences in the obvious group, namely two-side performance, different form and additional techniques.

          Many patterns in Yang Deng Fu’s version, including key patterns, are performed only on one side but in our version they are performed in both the left and the right mode. A clear example is the patterns in Grasping Sparrow’s Tail.

          The form of a few patterns is different. A good example is “Carry Tiger Back to Mountain”.

          Some techniques in our version are not found in Yang Deng Fu’s version. An example is Elbow Strike.

          Here I provide only one example for each difference, leaving the fun of finding out more examples to our family members and forum guests.

          In the hidden group, there are also three differences, namely the Bow-Arrow Stance, fa-jing or exploding force, and speed.

          Though classified in the hidden group, the difference in the Bow-Arrow Stance found in Yang Deng Fu’ version and our Wahnam version is obvious. The toes in the original version point to the front and a side, whereas ours are hooked in. The two feet in the original version are slightly apart, whereas ours are in line.

          Fa-jing or exploding force is not shown in the original version, whereas it occurs quite frequently in our version. One must not forget that Yang Deng Fu himself was very forceful, and his exploding force was excellent, though it was not demonstrated in his version of the set popularly practiced by the public today.

          Though the video clip you provided in the thread shows only still pictures of the set, it is well known that practitioners of the original set today perform it slowly. It is sometimes believed that the slower the performance the better it is. While some movements in our version are also slow, other movements are relatively fast, though, for the sake of those learning the set from the video, they may not be as fast as we shall perform them at the course during Valentine 2014.

          What is more important, not just for Taijiquan performance but also for daily living, than knowing the differences between the two versions is to know the reasons why they are different. In other words, what benefits we can get by performing our version differently in the six areas mentioned above. Or, viewing it from the other perspective, what disadvantages we may have if we perform our version differently.

          I shall explain the reasons below, but in order that our family members and forum guests may have fun as well as benefit discussing them first, I suggest you post my reasons a few days later.

          Besides training mental clarity and logical reasoning, which will result when one discusses the reasons, he will also benefit much from enjoying the benefits or avoiding the disadvantages of the differences. Obviously these benefits are not just for Taijiquan performance but for enriching our daily life, an opportunity participating in your thread will give.

          Obviously practicing techniques on both the left and the right side instead of just on one side gives us better efficiency in combat as well as more systematic development for health, vitality and longevity.

          This may appear to contradict what I have said elsewhere, i.e. it is not necessary in Shaolin Kungfu to train both side. This is because Shaolin Kungfu has a very wide repertoire of techniques which sufficiently fulfill these needs. But relatively Taijiquan does not have the extensive repertoire of Shaolin, and therefore may not have this advantage.

          Comment


          • #20
            Dear Kevin Sihing,

            Wow, thank you for asking this Question.

            Thank you Sigung for giving an amazing answer and the opportunity to learn many insights.

            I’ll have a go for fun on discussing some reasons.

            Fa-jing trains the use of internal force for combat and gives radiant health.

            Practicing Bow Arrow stance in line and with the toes hooked in gives us the best position for energy to flow and be rooted.

            Practicing patterns at speed increases flow and fluidity and improves combat efficiency.

            Can’t wait for the rest of the answer

            Shaolin Salute,
            Dominic.

            Comment


            • #21
              Thank you for your answer Dominic! Fantastic!

              And thank you as well Leo for your reply. I am sorry we won't get the chance to train together again in February, but oh yes, some other time for sure! As for the Dragons, Tigers and Cranes... 2014 is going to be a very special year in our school for sure.

              All the best,

              Kevin

              Comment


              • #22
                Dear Kevin,
                thanks for starting the thread which lead to another opportunity to receive in-depth knowledge from Sifu.

                Dear Sifu,
                thank you for your extensive text and giving us the chance to find out the answers ourselves.
                I recently came across the saying "A great teacher shows you where to look at, but not what to find there."
                The current thread is another example of your outstanding teaching skills.

                I'm looking forward to the second part.

                Meanwhile I'll have a try to answer myself. I completely agree with Dominic’s answers, but would like to add:

                Fa-Jing:
                - is one of the most effective and profitable methods to increase internal force. The more force the practitioner has, the more he can explode, the more new force will be generated. So the rich get richer, but fortunately also the less rich ones get richer.
                - is a good way to extend the energy beyond the physical body.

                Bow Arrow stance:
                - Standing with the feet apart resembles handing the defeat to the opponent as one exposes oneself to groin kicks.

                Best wishes,

                Leo
                Sifu Leonard Lackinger

                Shaolin Treasure House

                Shaolin Wahnam Wien & Shaolin Treasure House

                Comment


                • #23
                  Thank you for your reply Leo! Fantastic additions to Dominic's answer.

                  I would like to add one little bit to the Bow Arrow stance question: our version of the stance saves our knees from being hurt!

                  I'm looking forward to hearing more answers!

                  All the best,

                  Kevin

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Dear Kevin

                    Thank you for starting this inspiring thread!!

                    I'm seriously contemplating starting to learn the Yang Tai Chi Chuan, however I'm not sure if I can fit it in my schedule.

                    Say I practice this Art efficiently (to parallel the way I practice my Shaolin Chi Kung - 15 minutes is very powerful) What would be the minimal daily commitment to my TCC practice in order to reap the benefits it has to offer? Is a daily practice required?

                    Since I'm not a practitioner of the Yang style (yet?) I'm not posting the question on the Q & A page.

                    Thanks and all the best
                    Jacek

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Dear Jacek,

                      Thank you for your post and interest on the very amazing 108-pattern Yang set!

                      Just wondering - have you practiced any Tai Chi Chuan or Kung Fu in the school before? If you haven't, learning the 108-Pattern set from scratch is not advised - Level 1 of our Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan syllabus is the place to start. Level 1 teaches all the fundamentals of the art: stances, moving in stances and basic body mechanics. It lays the foundation for all future practice.

                      Regarding practice of the art, yes, daily practice is recommended and what wonderful news this is! As well as bestowing tremendous benefits on us, these arts are a joy to train and being able to experience this joy on a daily basis is a true Godsend!

                      All the best,

                      Kevin

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Two great answers so far on the second question asked by Sigung!


                        Might some family member have fun in answering the first question? : how else does our set differ to Yang Deng Fu's version in terms of two-sided performance, different form and additional techniques?

                        I'll post the answer on Friday so please join in on the fun before then!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Dear Kevin Sihing

                          Thanks for your reply!

                          About 8 years ago I've practiced Wu Tai Chi Chuan in Edinburgh. I've attended classes for about 3 months (and kept it going for another couple of months) and learned about a third of "the square form". I have no experience of Kung Fu.

                          In my old Alexander Technique training school one of the teachers was also a Chen style instructor. Once a week she would briefly take us through some basic Tai Chi movements, so in a way I had a short weekly experience of that for a year. I also hope that some of my AT skills would be transferable in case of Tai Chi Chuan.

                          Not a massive experience, but some...

                          Do you reckon that might make me more prepared / suitable to learn Yang style from the scratch? I don't feel intimidated by the length of its form : )

                          I didn't know there's a Level 1 Wanham Tai Chi Chuan Course available! This sounds great and I will keep my eyes opened in the future... Not sure when such a course will be available in the UK though. At the moment my main priority is to attend the UK Summer Camp.

                          I am really enjoying being part of this forum and learning from all of you. It is a very friendly and welcoming place!

                          All the best
                          Jacek

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jacek Kaleta View Post
                            Dear Kevin Sihing

                            Thanks for your reply!

                            About 8 years ago I've practiced Wu Tai Chi Chuan in Edinburgh. I've attended classes for about 3 months (and kept it going for another couple of months) and learned about a third of "the square form". I have no experience of Kung Fu.

                            In my old Alexander Technique training school one of the teachers was also a Chen style instructor. Once a week she would briefly take us through some basic Tai Chi movements, so in a way I had a short weekly experience of that for a year. I also hope that some of my AT skills would be transferable in case of Tai Chi Chuan.

                            Not a massive experience, but some...

                            Do you reckon that might make me more prepared / suitable to learn Yang style from the scratch? I don't feel intimidated by the length of its form : )

                            I didn't know there's a Level 1 Wanham Tai Chi Chuan Course available! This sounds great and I will keep my eyes opened in the future... Not sure when such a course will be available in the UK though. At the moment my main priority is to attend the UK Summer Camp.

                            I am really enjoying being part of this forum and learning from all of you. It is a very friendly and welcoming place!

                            All the best
                            Jacek

                            Hi Jacek,

                            Thanks again for your post and interest in the course and 108-Pattern set!

                            In my post yesterday I should have mentioned that attendance at Sigung's special Taijiquan/Kung Fu regional courses (such as the 108-Pattern set course in Killarney) is on the basis that students have the first two levels of the standard syllabus complete i.e. they have either completed Level 1 and Level 2 of either the Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan syllabus or the Shaolin Kung Fu syllabus. This is to ensure they have the necessary skill base to enable them effectively partake in the course.

                            If a student who has trained in another school wishes to join one of Sigung's courses - and yes, the 108-Pattern set course is open to students of other schools - they must have sufficient experience in their style of Tai Chi or Kung Fu to also enable them to partake.

                            I'll send you a PM in a moment to continue the chat about this!

                            I am very glad you are enjoying the forum! It is lovely to have you here.

                            Chat soon,

                            Kevin

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The 108-Pattern Yang style set is a wonder of Taijiquan and a wonder of our school. Sigung's most comprehensive teaching and transmission of the set to date will be a very special experience for those of us lucky enough to find ourselves in Killarney in just over two months time.

                              As with all Taijiquan and Kung Fu sets once we are comfortable with practicing the routine, a little bit of the nature of the set begins to reveal itself. My regular training of the 108-Pattern set this past while has offered me some of these little glimpses and naturally I would like to share them all with you here on the forum.

                              So, here are what I see to be…

                              The Five Fabulous Features of the 108-Pattern Yang Style Taijiquan set!

                              Fabulous Feature Number One: The footwork.

                              The footwork of the set is absolutely amazing and is a joy to train. It takes in the whole spectrum of movement in Taijiquan:

                              - moving forwards and backwards;
                              - moving to the left side, moving to the right right;
                              - moving diagonally forwards and diagonally backwards;
                              - switching from a left stance to a right stance and a right stance to a left stance;
                              - transitional stances;
                              - single leg stances…the list is endless!

                              Although the set itself can appear slow, the footwork can be quite fast!

                              We can say one thing with certainty: training the set will greatly improve one's footwork and, as a consequence, one's Taijiquan and Kung Fu.


                              To be continued...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thank you again for clarifying Kevin!

                                The good news is that there are actually regular Kung Fu classes here in London, so in the future once it becomes possible for me, I'll be able to work on those basics under the guidance of the Wanham Shaolin Instructor!

                                Best wishes
                                Jacek

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