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People tell me my Baguazhang performance lacks "peng jin." What is "peng jin"?

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  • People tell me my Baguazhang performance lacks "peng jin." What is "peng jin"?

    Hi family!

    I was curious to know if someone could enlighten me about "peng jin."

    I figured I would make a thread since I've heard the term bandied around a lot and some of the old threads that mention the term were quite confusing to me, with practitioners of various schools contributing.

    The reason I ask is because Baguazhang practitioners of three different lineages (Yin Fu, Ma Weiqi, and Ma Gui) who viewed my Baguazhang performance all recommended that I "need to develop more peng jin."

    When I asked what they meant by peng jin, they responded variously as "a form of springy forcefield," or "like an inflatable tire you keep around you (because its resistive, but not rigid)." To be honest, the former reminded me a lot of Sigung's descriptions of someone with Dragon force and a well-developed shen. It also reminded me of Sigung saying both at last year's summer camp and the questions to Sigung thread that we can either focus our mind (for example, at the dan tian) or not think of anything (being in a "cosmic mode").

    Is "peng jin," like many other things, rolled up in our school's classic advice of, "Get the form right, and then relax and enjoy your practice"?

    At least I received some concrete physical advice from a Shaolin Wahnam family member that my rear guard-hand was too close to my body. Now that's clear advice that I can work on!
    I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

  • #2
    Hi Frederick,

    Simply put: practice what and how your Sifu has taught you and you will continue to develop force, including peng jin--or ward-off force.

    Have fun.

    Yours,
    Charles David Chalmers
    Brunei Darussalam

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    • #3
      Sounds good to me! I like simple and straight-forward advice.
      I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is a very interesting thread, the topic of which I feel personally about.

        Recently, I have been told by others with whom I have been pushing hands with (and by masters who observed me) that I have a great deal of Jing 劲, but I don't use or manifest my Peng Jing as much, or as well as I should.

        I believe my Peng Jing was developed naturally through stance training, so Charles' advice is spot on. It was probably much augmented through my practice of the form sets. But I could certainly do with more practice in applying it dynamically.

        Just a bugbear of mine. I don't know how the term "Jing 劲" came to be spelt as Jin. I believe the genesis was Dr Yang Jwing Ming's books and the (wrong) usage just snowballed from there. It may have been done to distinguish the term, which means internal force, from Jing 精, which means essence, as in the way we normally refer to Jing, Qi and Shen. But "Jin" is a bastardised spelling, and it is wrong. If one is using Hanyu Pinyin, the spelling is "Jing". If it is necessary to draw a distinction between Jing as internal force and Jing as essence, then use parenthesis or add the 4th tone. "Jin" to represent is wrong. I don't know if I was clear enough, but "Jin" is the wrong spelling.
        Last edited by Zhang Wuji; 13 August 2013, 07:11 AM.
        百德以孝为先
        Persevere in correct practice

        Comment


        • #5
          Peng jing, peng jing, peng jing.

          Thanks, Wuji.

          As Before,

          Chas.
          Charles David Chalmers
          Brunei Darussalam

          Comment


          • #6
            Ha ha. Just so that I am not misunderstood - the last paragraph was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. So, for anyone who has been using "Peng Jin", please don't be offended as it was not targeted at you.
            百德以孝为先
            Persevere in correct practice

            Comment


            • #7
              Peng jing it is! Thank you for letting me know, I had the question in the back of my mind some time ago regarding what Dr. Yang Jwing-ming meant by "jin" versus what we call "jing." Ah, the wonders of only having taken a Mandarin Chinese 101 course a few years ago.
              I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

              Comment


              • #8
                perceptions of force via video

                Originally posted by Frederick_Chu View Post
                Hi family!

                The reason I ask is because Baguazhang practitioners of three different lineages (Yin Fu, Ma Weiqi, and Ma Gui) who viewed my Baguazhang performance all recommended that I "need to develop more peng jin."
                Hello all, interesting post; thanks for starting and for contributions so far. Fred I was of course interested because I saw your vid on Facebook! I think your point above raises another interesting point. Several people watched your video and felt it appropriate to comment on your need to develop more Peng Jing. This implies that they could observe and accurately perceive through the video, the 'level' of your Peng Jing and saw an opportunity for improvement. I think that in general, this can be very difficult to perceive through watching a video and the only real way to have an understanding of someone's force or essence or chi, is to cross hands with them (or in Sitaigung's case, just be in the same room!). People have the choice to take advice, or not, based on people's perceptions of them via videos, however in my opinion, while some technical points on form and flow may be more perceptible, getting to grips with someone's jing, chi and shen will be much more difficult. It's a long way short of the heart to heart transmission that occurs when face to face with your teacher (as I know you know well ).

                To demonstrate my point I am going to share two videos which a non-wahnam friend of mine 'pitted against each other' in terms of perceptible force... what do you think his views were?





                All the best

                Rich
                ++ smile ++ from ++ the ++ heart ++
                Rich Denyer-Bewick
                ...
                you can connect with me on: Facebook (personal/social), Linkedin (professional) and Twitter (a bit of both!)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by namaste View Post
                  To demonstrate my point I am going to share two videos which a non-wahnam friend of mine 'pitted against each other' in terms of perceptible force... what do you think his views were?



                  Hey there! At my low student's level, I'm no where near perceptible enough to discern most people's level of force (be it peng jing or otherwise) unless it's quite obvious; more often, the best I can do is use my knowledge of anatomy and dance to see if things are aligned and flowing smoothly and safely, haha.

                  With those two videos, though, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your friend believed the first video to be more forceful. As an interesting aside, I've shown that same video to a few non-Wahnam friends of mine as well, and some of them said, "That's not Tai Chi, that's Kung Fu!"
                  I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello family,
                    Nice thread, here is a performance with radiant peng jin in my opinion
                    Wudang Taiji Mian Zhang - Cotton Palm - is one of the most beautiful yet significant taiji handforms in Xuan Wu Lineage, covering the "liang yi" principle ! ...



                    enjoy
                    Mahmood
                    The two hallmarks of Shaolin teachings: Wisdom and Compassion

                    Sifu Mahmood Ahmed

                    www.shaolin.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi!

                      The three circle/hugging the tree qigong stance used in taiji is specifically for developing peng jing if you want to speed up the process.

                      /Tomas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tomas View Post
                        Hi!

                        The three circle/hugging the tree qigong stance used in taiji is specifically for developing peng jing if you want to speed up the process.

                        /Tomas
                        Sigung's recent answer in the Q&A series provides us with much wisdom and guidance on this matter:



                        All the best,

                        Kevin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zhang Wuji View Post

                          Just a bugbear of mine. I don't know how the term "Jing 劲" came to be spelt as Jin. I believe the genesis was Dr Yang Jwing Ming's books and the (wrong) usage just snowballed from there. It may have been done to distinguish the term, which means internal force, from Jing 精, which means essence, as in the way we normally refer to Jing, Qi and Shen. But "Jin" is a bastardised spelling, and it is wrong. If one is using Hanyu Pinyin, the spelling is "Jing". If it is necessary to draw a distinction between Jing as internal force and Jing as essence, then use parenthesis or add the 4th tone. "Jin" to represent is wrong. I don't know if I was clear enough, but "Jin" is the wrong spelling.
                          Dear all

                          I would like to apologise profusely for the post above. It turns out that it was I who was wrong. If it is any defence, it is because whenever I heard the term being used it was either "Jing" or in the Beijing accent (something like "Ji-errr"). I happened to pick up a dictionary and checked the hanyu pinyin for the word. It turns out that 劲 can be pronounced as either Jing or Jin. In the context of martial arts and in fact as a noun, it should be Jin. Otherwise, it would be Jing. It generally depends on what word it is paired with, but with apologies to Dr Yang and all other authors, it was my mistake.
                          百德以孝为先
                          Persevere in correct practice

                          Comment

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