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  • 'Empty Force'

    I've just finished reading 'Empty Force' by Paul Dong....

    Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this ? Either trained to develop this ability or knew of an instructor with these abilities ?

    I'm particularly intrigued by the following video. An instructor who's 'abilities' seem to work on his students but not when fighting a MMA guy ?

    Is the ancient mystical power of Chi as real as they say it is? What about Dim Mak the infamous 'Death Touch' a punch so powerful it can knock people off the...


    Would love to know more about this....

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jazz77 View Post
    I've just finished reading 'Empty Force' by Paul Dong....

    Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this ? Either trained to develop this ability or knew of an instructor with these abilities ?

    I'm particularly intrigued by the following video. An instructor who's 'abilities' seem to work on his students but not when fighting a MMA guy ?

    Is the ancient mystical power of Chi as real as they say it is? What about Dim Mak the infamous 'Death Touch' a punch so powerful it can knock people off the...


    Would love to know more about this....
    I had to read the book to understand what you were talking about and I completed a course of basic training jibengong/neigong which is a by-product and not an end product of training and am still at a low level since I cannot do and am incapable of doing what is purported to be done with what people call 'empty force" which ends up being a 'Farce" in the end.

    I used to use it as part of qigong instruction on help individuals how to 'sense' pulses and use it to assist with their acupuncture practice. This was 10 years ago. When I do teach, I attempt to make it as didactic as possible without resording to voodoo like or superstitious modes of training.

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    • #3
      Empty Force is as Real as an Atomic Bomb

      According to science , there are more EMPTY spaces then solid particles in an atomic bomb .....but look at the gigantic FORCE that the 10 feet long Little Boy ( the bomb , picture 1) unleashed to destroy a WHOLE city ( picture 2 Hiroshima ) . Thus , it is unscientific , irrational and criminal to say that EMPTY FORCE is a FARCE .

      Shaolin Master Gu Ru Zhang's ( picture 3 ) small hand broke a pile of large solid bricks by an apparently gentle tap .

      Sifu Wong's disciple ( picture 4) dispersed distant cloud using his hand because of his specially trained mind and chi .

      Moral of the real stories above : Forces are real even though they appear Empty .

      Mastering empty force or mastering nuclear energy needs the trilogy of a special teacher , an exact science and a special student ....definitely not something for any Tom , Dick or Heri .
      Damian Kissey
      Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
      www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

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      • #4
        Excellent answer, Dr.Damian Sihing.

        Joko
        开心 好运气
        kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
        open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
        ------------------------------------------------------------
        Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
        ------------------------------------------------------------
        Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Damian Kissey View Post
          According to science , there are more EMPTY spaces then solid particles in an atomic bomb .....but look at the gigantic FORCE that the 10 feet long Little Boy ( the bomb , picture 1) unleashed to destroy a WHOLE city ( picture 2 Hiroshima ) . Thus , it is unscientific , irrational and criminal to say that EMPTY FORCE is a FARCE .

          Shaolin Master Gu Ru Zhang's ( picture 3 ) small hand broke a pile of large solid bricks by an apparently gentle tap .

          Sifu Wong's disciple ( picture 4) dispersed distant cloud using his hand because of his specially trained mind and chi .

          Moral of the real stories above : Forces are real even though they appear Empty .

          Mastering empty force or mastering nuclear energy needs the trilogy of a special teacher , an exact science and a special student ....definitely not something for any Tom , Dick or Heri .
          You are mistaken in your pronouncement. kind sir.
          I have no knowledge of rocket science nor nuclear physics nor have I stated I am a rocket scientist so it would be impossible to even pretend that you claim I stated what you guessed.

          I have seen what many claim is Empty Force but the exposition of it in the marketplace is definately EMPTY FARCE. Anything not connected with this is purely conjecture on the part of others since I have not commented on rocket science, nuclear fission, or anything of the sort!

          Your statements are excellent despite my not believeing the content of the claim but that must not deter anyone from seeking what is in their best interest, whether it is real or imaginery. We all believe in CHOICE so we all follow the same path despite disagreements. All men are brothers when they search for the same goals of peace and harmony in the world!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by yeniseri View Post
            ..I have seen what many claim is Empty Force but the exposition of it in the marketplace ..

            Your statements are excellent despite my not believeing the content of the claim ....

            We all believe in CHOICE so we all follow the same path despite disagreements. All men are brothers when they search for the same goals of peace and harmony in the world!
            Some human beings do not believe that men have landed on the moon ( they claimed it was staged in some desert with props ) or that Hiroshima was ever bombed or that Gu Ru Zhang broke those bricks or that Sifu Wong can disperse clouds using empty force : agreed , it is their CHOICE .

            And there would be more peace and harmony in this world if a guest does not treat a host virtual kwoon as a marketplace .
            Damian Kissey
            Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
            www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

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            • #7
              Thank you kind sir!

              Instead of accusing someone, I have been taught that it is better to ask when a statement lacks veracity and truth so what exactly do you mean by this
              And there would be more peace and harmony in this world if a guest does not treat a host virtual kwoon as a marketplace
              My reson for the question appears to be obvious but please correct me!
              Thank you
              Last edited by yeniseri; 10 June 2012, 06:23 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Yeniseri
                My reson for the question appears to be obvious but please correct me!
                Angry?

                Originally posted by Yeniseri
                I have seen what many claim is Empty Force but the exposition of it in the marketplace is definately EMPTY FARCE
                Stop being rude. You should be explaining YOURself.
                少林華南台灣 Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan

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                "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

                -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

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                • #9
                  Wonderful post Dr Damian sihing!

                  Yeneseri do not worry that you do not understand the comparison that Dr Damian made. Of course it is valid that since you have not trained with our school and had a chance to see the true use/application of "empty force" or more wonderfully to feel the effects of your own practice opening up this skill that you would believe "empty force" to be "farce". You very well may have seen some fake demonstrations in your time! And who wouldn't revert to didactic learning if they had not been lucky enough to experience these skills and effect directly?! i hope one day you will be lucky enough to learn directly from our Sifu and experience some of these wonderful benefits of proper training.

                  For the rest - the comparison to the "empty force" of particle physics is awesome! It is incredible to me to see the advances in modern particle physics and quantum mechanics so directly relating to the arts the past masters achieved such skill with! Truly they understood the nature of reality in a way we are only beginning to approach with our modern physics!

                  Clearly nature has spoken and it is the "empty" spaces which hold the greatest power! While physical aggregation of particles forming mass on this plane makes life pretty spectacular - finding the bridge between mostly flowing energy unobstructed by dense mass is an awesome task to take on with our practice!

                  This made me think of seeing Sifu's arms - where we would expect muscular definition to indicate strength (mass accumulated as scar tissue in the muscle creating bulk) - instead we see a smooth arm - more akin to a garden hose full of flowing water!! And if like me any of you have ever been gripped gently or moved around by those hoses of his - it is hard to believe that much strength is possible in a human being!

                  I suppose the truly difficult part is that point where we allow that flowing internal energy to release and create an actual physical effect on the "solid" mass around us (break the brick with a gentle tap).

                  Any thoughts on how this process relates to physics Dr D?
                  from the Heart...

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                  • #10
                    Oh by the way Jazz77 - if you didn't see it yet in this post - Sifu Wong most certainly has this skill as do many of his top level students like Dr Damian himself!

                    Sifu has given some truly amazing demonstrations of using internal force to strike across space! A skill of only the highest level masters gained through proper training methods like he teaches in Shaolin Wahnam.

                    A lower level practitioner (like myself) may have some experience of this type of internal force and may even be able to affect an external object with it but the ability to use a skill such as this in combat sparring when many other factors come into play is a long way off for most of us. Sifu and some of his top instructors have this skill but those you see on the videos may not.

                    However, the fact that one, two or many "masters" are unable to demonstrate this skill does not mean that "empty force" does not exist or is unattainable.

                    Just seeing one master demonstrate this force (our Sifu) and many students young and old easily break bricks with little "external force" applied is good enough for me to keep practicing and enjoying the tremendous benefits of just a little bit of this type of force in my life!

                    you should go to a course with Sifu Wong Kiew Kit when one is nearby - you will be quite surprised and delighted!
                    from the Heart...

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                    • #11
                      LOL - last one (I just love physics)

                      It is only now considered "empty" because we can not see it with the naked eye or even our best instruments of science - though we see more and more all the time thanks to science! This force not only exists but even it has form and flow at some level with true emptiness only at the heart just like everything else!
                      from the Heart...

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                      • #12
                        I've been hit by Sifus One finger Zen from 10-15 feet away.

                        He did it as a healing,

                        How do I know its real? Minutes later I'm coughing and choking like never before, eyes are going fuzzy. This wouldn't happen normally.

                        So he helps to clear the blockage, and I feel better and more open than before the experience.

                        Best,

                        Jas

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                        • #13
                          Physical Science , Quantum Physics , Scalar EM Theory and The Absolute Truth

                          Originally posted by ChristinaB View Post
                          ...I suppose the truly difficult part is that point where we allow that flowing internal energy to release and create an actual physical effect on the "solid" mass around us (break the brick with a gentle tap).

                          Any thoughts on how this process relates to physics Dr D?

                          Sifu Dr.Christina ,

                          Aside from some personal observation/experience of the truth of empty force ( which is nothing special since anyone can observe the reality of how a small seed photosynthesise into a big solid plant by feeding on sunlight ) ....i do not have any original thoughts on the topic aside from what is already known in classical physics , in quantum physics and our Sifu's famous garden hose analogy ( empty hose strenghtened by metal coils = muscular force , hose filled with flowing water = hard internal force , electricity flowing thru the metallic coils = soft internal force ) .... so Master Gu Ru Zhang used all three types of forces plus his mind to achieve the process of empty force.

                          What does latest modern science /Physics have to offer to explain this PROCESS and many other natural wonders ?

                          Answer: Scalar Electromagnetic Theory originally proposed by the great american scientist T.E. Bearden ....please read the interview in this link


                          Excerpt from above ..

                          " Question16: Is there any real proof of the internal energy channel operation of the mind, or is it just all still a theory or hypothesis?

                          A: The basis can be shown, and it is directly subject to laboratory test, with a decent laboratory and a little effort. Let me give you a very strong datum point.
                          There exists a rare, completely bafflingly medical phenomenon - which has until recently been concealed - called hydrancephaly. To the normal materialistic Western biologist, this condition is astonishing, to say the least. In hydrancephaly, a person's cranial cavity is filled almost totally with fluid, not with brain matter. There may be only 5% or so of the brain in there; typically just the small portion on the tip of the spine. The other 95% of the brain case is filled with fluid. Yet the individual may be as normal as you or I. Except, of course, that x-rays of his head will astonish all the doctors. A few years ago, for example, such a hydrancephalic individual graduated from a university in Great Britain, with a degree in mathematics. British news actually made a video documentary on this subject, and particularly on that individual.
                          Now obviously hydrancephaly proves rather conclusively that it isn't really the brain matter or the electrical wiggles in the two hemispheres that constitute the mind.Those wiggles normally are correlated with, and communicate back and forth with, the internal Whittaker dynamics of the bio- potential. The brain is a special communications and processing station, interfacing sensors and processed stuff from the external world to the Whittaker-sets, and outputs from the Whittaker-sets to the body and cells. If just a small functioning part of this "way station" remains fully functional, the interfacing still exists. "

                          The above medical fact , reminds me of what our Sifu said .. " Shen or the Mind is more then just the physical organ brain .."

                          So , happy practising the Internal Arts and experiencing the truth of Empty Force in it's various manifestation regardless whether mainstream Physics will ever take pioneers like TE Bearden seriously or not .

                          Best wishes to All .
                          Damian Kissey
                          Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
                          www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

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                          • #14
                            Sounds familiar.......

                            Question6: Are you saying that real energy can be transmitted faster than the speed of light?

                            A: Yes. But hyperspatially. Not through 3-space, but "around" it.
                            Again, this means that it's possible to produce energetic changes in a distant system at a distant place, without transmitting energy "through space" in the normal sense. You transmit "around" space, so to speak, and directly in time or through a higher dimension, depending on the model you're using to understand this. Further, the speed of the internal EM energy transmission is not limited to the speed of light. Whittaker already specifically pointed this out. Quantum mechanics also predicts instantaneous action-at-a- distance and has essentially proven it experimentally. Finally, you can specifically Whittaker-engineer this "hyperspatial" transmission, if you will, to do essentially whatever you wish to do in that distant system. It all depends on how far you develop the technology; the basis is there. Hypothetically, you can eventually even develop a kind of teleportation. Whittaker transmission through the internal channel is already "teleportation" of energy, so to speak.
                            少林華南台灣 Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan

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                            "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

                            -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

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                            • #15
                              This is my personal view!
                              When I engage a subject through talk, interest, kind words, etc this bi-directional flow creates its own 'energy' (whatever it is called is irrelevant though I have attempted to describe it in simple words or description) at some cellular level (unbeknownst to me but the science does state it can only start here), some kind of cascading effect takes place enough for one to see an external objective of 'healing' which effects the 'effact'', noting some change taking place.

                              There is another level of "empty force (aka the "Farce" often seen)", a kind of crude hypnotic attempt to do what the above accomplishes but it comes off as a cute parlour trick because of the apparant cognitive dissonace in those who purport to do the real thing.

                              In "Personality Driven Qigong", it is possible for a strong enough personality to control enough of those who are prone to such hypnotic suggestions. Said personality need not be overbearing but there may be a culture driven bias on both sides) that allows for this to happen. The public display (market driven!) of Empty Force is usually insufficient because of the urge to impress an audience as opposed to actual healing potential of face to face interaction.

                              Here are some basic questions:
                              1. Does the healing happen by chance?
                              2. Is the original diagnosis correct to facilitate the use of 'Empty Force"?
                              3. For x 'disease', is there a frequency, intensity and duration for an effect? Obviously, it is individually based but based on the condition, is there an observable treatment effect over time? It is possible that x condition was misdiagnosed (being less severe) and based on that the treatment effect was a 'no brainer' since said disease never existed in the first place!

                              Just basic questions from an observant miscreant!

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