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  • Competition Rules!

    Family!!!


    I wanted to start a thread on different kungfu sparring competition rules on the forum?

    So here it is!

    I want to get people talking about what techniques are useful in competitions, how to train for them, what to expect, etc.

    Sound interesting?!?

    Well also get posting if you are interested in trying out sparring under different competition rules and if you tried it, let us know how it worked for you.

    Was the equitement (i.e. Gloves, box, gum shield) difficult to spar with?

    Did it cut down the traditional techniques that you could use?

    Was it scary?

    Was it easy?

    Look forward to hearing the feedback. I will also try and chip in occasionally with my own experiences.

    All the best

    Robin
    "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

  • #2
    I am going to be haunting this thread.

    I am curious about accounts of going against highly aggressive, non-friendly opponents, how did you adapt, how big of a difference was this to sparring against other Wahnam students who in all fairness aren't really trying to take each others heads off, etc.
    Shaolin Wahnam USA

    "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

    Comment


    • #3
      San Shou and Qing Da

      Hi Guys,

      I thought I’d post some competition rules for general information.

      The two types of competition that have been developed by the Chinese government over the years for Kung Fu competitors to compete in are

      Shan Shou / San Da (full contact)

      And

      Qing Da (semi/light contact)

      Both of these types of competition allow kicks, punches and throws and require protective equipment to be worn by the competitors.
      However, the level of threat and danger between the two events is considerable.

      I have included an overview of the rules for both events in the following two posts.

      Please note they are from different sources and I have also editted the Qing Da rules considerably to be more relevant from a competitor’s perspective eg. I have edited out the referees uniform requirements etc.

      Best

      Robin
      "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

      Comment


      • #4
        San Shou rules- Full Contact

        I found these ‘general’ Shan Shou rules here



        IKF San Shou "GENERAL" Rules


        Sand Shou is a Full contact event with strikes and throws allowed

        1. Kicks are allowed to the inside and outside of the legs as well as the upper body.
        2. Knee and elbow strikes are not allowed. (In some cases, knees may be allowed)
        3. All types of Judo & Wrestling Throws are Legal In San Shou.
        4. Fighters have 5 seconds after clinch to execute a takedown, throw or sweep or they are separated by the center referee.
        5. The bout may take place on either a raised platform with no ropes or in a boxing ring with ropes.
        ________________________________________
        IKF SAN SHOU SCORING and JUDGING

        1. There are 2 aspects of IKF San Shou Scoring. Stand Up and Takedown scores. Both are ADDED scores by each judge on their scoring "CLICKERS".

        2. STAND UP: Three Judges will score each fighter by each landed strike "1" Point (Punch or Kick) per strike landed clean and with power. Glove to glove contact does not count as points, clash of kicks, and neither does slap punches while in a clinch.
        o Keep in mind, a kick that lands but is "CAUGHT" by the receiving fighter and the receiving fighter FOLLOWS with a counter that lands effectively, or a throw/sweep that is executed effectively, the kick DOES NOT count as a point.

        3. TAKEDOWNS: After each throw, takedown, sweep etc, the bout referee will stop the action and award points if earned. To indicate points earned, the referee, after both fighters are standing, will POINT his hand to the fighter who is awarded the points while his other hand is raised high in the air showing the point total with his fingers. He will also yell the point score verbally. These points awarded shall be recorded by each judge on their count "Clickers" in each of their hands to the awarded fighters point total.

        4. IKF JUDGES SCORING
        o At the end of each round, each judge will write the TOTAL amount of points for each fighter on their score card. Although the WINNER will only receive "1" point on the MASTER SCORE SHEET kept by the Chief Ringside Scorekeepers, it is good for review purposes to know the total points each judge scored the bout as.
        o At the end of each round, the Chief Ringside Scorekeepers will only give "1" point to the WINNING fighter who is the fighter with the most points in the round. The losing fighter will receive "0" points.
        o At the end of the bout, unless the bout was stopped prior to the end of the scheduled rounds (KO, TKO DQ etc.) the fighter with the most rounds WON will win the bout.
        o
        5. IKF REFEREE POINTS AWARDED
        o 5A: 0 Points:
         If a fighter attempts a throw and the other fighter pulls him/her down with them, and neither show control. This is the decision of the referee.
         One opponent uses a falling technique to attack and does not succeed.
         One opponent uses a flying offensive technique with a deliberately falling technique, the latter will not score a point.
        o 5B: 1 Point:
         "IF" The fighter being thrown uses a throw "COUNTER TECHNIQUE" and reverses the beginning thrower in regards to position of control or command, the fighter who ends up in the controlling or commanding position within a count of "1" after both fighters hit the floor shall receive the 1 point awarded. If both end up side by side, no points shall be awarded.
        o 5C: 2 Points:
         Any knockdown from a strike (Punch or Kick) will award 2 points to the striker as long as the technique (strike) is clean and the standing fighter does not touch the ring floor.
         On such a strike, if the fallen fighter does not require to be given a standing 8 count and rises off the matt quickly after the knockdown, again, this is 2 points.
         However, If an 8 count is required after a strike drops a fighter, this will be awarded "3" points. See below.
         Any basic throw that is not high altitude or of extreme skill/difficulty will be awarded 2 points to the thrower. Anytime one fighter throws, sweeps or shoves his/her opponent to the floor without the thrower touching the ring floor with anything but his/her feet.
         The opponent is forced to fall by the competitors techniques, including the competitors deliberately falling while dodging defensively, the standing fighter shall be awarded "2" Points.
        o 5D: 3 Points:
         Any HIGH ALTITUDE or EXPLOSIVE, DEVASTATING THROW shall be awarded 3 points.
         Any knockdown from a strike or any technique that requires the referee to give a fighter a standing 8 count, the fighter not being given the 8 count will receive 3 Points. The referee will give the standing 8 count first and then award points as required unless he, the referee elects to stop the bout instead.
         The opponent is knocked down by a dropping sweep where his feet fly out from under him where he lands on his back. It is OK if the sweepers hands touch the ground.
        ________________________________________
        HOW A WINNER IS DETERMINED IN IKF SAN SHOU
        1. The fighter with the most ROUNDS WON at the end of the bout is the winner OR;
        2. If a fighter is knocked out, counted out by the ring referee, receives a TKO (Technical Knockout) or the referee stops the bout because he feel a fighter is not able or should not continue due to safety issues, the other fighter will win the bout OR;
        3. Other ways to stop a bout and win a bout can be due to Injury or Disqualification due to Fouls.
        ________________________________________
        IKF SAN SHOU TECHNIQUES
        • Legal Techniques;
        o Punches to the head and body.
        o Kicks to the head, body and legs.
        o Throws and takedowns.
        o In some bouts, when requested, knees may be approved and allowed.
        • Illegal Techniques;
        o Biting.
        o Head Butts.
        o Joint Attacks.
        o Elbow Strikes.
        o Holding and Hitting.
        o Open Hand Strikes.
        o Strikes to the Groin.
        o Strikes to the Knees.
        o Kicks or Punches to the Spine.
        o Throws that involve Joint Manipulation.
        o Kicks or Punches to the back of the Head.
        ________________________________________
        RING BOUNDARY - Off The Ring
        1. If the bout is fought on a platform floor with no ropes, there will be no "PUSHING" of a fighter out of the ring. This will result in a warning, then a point foul, and finally, a disqualification of the pusher.
        2. However, if a fighter runs off the platform and is not FIGHTING or DEFENDING as they leave the platform, this will result in a warning, then 1 point awarded to his/her opponent and finally, an automatic TKO loss.
        3. If a fighter goes off the ring while fighting or defending, the referee will simply begin both fighters again at center ring.
        ________________________________________
        IKF SAN SHOU DRESS CODE
        Shorts are MANDATORY- NO Long Pants!
        ________________________________________
        San Shou Rules
        SAFETY EQUIPMENT
        FOR EQUIPMENT - CLICK HERE!
        • AMATEUR Safety Equipment
        o Headgear Is not mandatory - Except in TOURNAMENTS & the United Kingdom.
         June 20th, 2005: Optional Headgear Rule - CLICK HERE!
        o Shin Pads - Shin-n-instep padding
         MANDATORY FOR ALL AMATEUR BOUTS IN FLORIDA.
         Are Not Mandatory in single event bouts but may be used.
         For SAFETY Reasons Shin Pads are MANDATORY in all IKF "AMATEUR TOURNAMENT" competitions.
         Fighters must supply their own Shin Pads. However, in some events, these are provided by the promoter.
        o Groin Cup is Mandatory.
        o Mouthpiece is Mandatory.
        o Handwraps are Mandatory.
        o Fight Gloves (That will be supplied by all IKF Event Promoters) are Mandatory. 8 & 10 Ounce Gloves. See Weight Classes For Glove Sizes. (10 & 12 ounce size used in Amateur Tournament Competition)
        • PRO Safety Equipment
        o Headgear Is Not Allowed in PRO IKF Bouts.
        o Groin Cup is Mandatory.
        o Mouthpiece is Mandatory.
        o Shin-n-instep padding -Not Allowed
        o Hand Wraps are Mandatory.
        o Fight Gloves (That will be supplied by all IKF Event Promoters) are Mandatory. 8 & 10 Ounce Gloves. See Weight Classes
        "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

        Comment


        • #5
          Qing Da rules (light/semi contact)

          You can find the complete and un-edited rules here



          Qing Da, or Light Contact Sparring rules


          INTRODUCTION


          QINGDA (meaning light contact fighting) is designed to cater for the majority of athletes who train on a
          none professional basis and therefore cannot risk the effects of full contact matches (sanshou).
          The Wushu Sanshou Association (WSA) Qingda Rules are based on the International Wushu Federation
          (IWUF) Sanshou Rules and the European Wushu Federation (EWUF) Qingda Rules.

          The guiding principle is to encourage competition among young athletes and ordinary club
          members without excessive exposure to danger.

          Rule 3 – Duration of Contest
          Each bout consists of three two-minute rounds with a one-minute rest in between. A bout is won by the best two of
          three rounds.

          Rule 4 – Fighting Area
          4.1 The contest area shall be square with a maximum area of 8 x 8 meters with a 2 meter safety zone around
          Judges table.

          Rule 5 – Weight Categories
          5.1 For both Under 18's and Over 18's
          Under 48kg Category 48kg
          52kg Category >48kg- 52kg
          56kg Category >52kg- 56kg
          60kg Category >56kg- 60kg
          65kg Category >60kg- 65kg
          Wushu Sanshou Association Qingda Rules – October 2008
          70kg Category >65kg- 70kg
          75kg Category >70kg- 75kg
          80kg Category >75kg- 80kg
          85kg Category >80kg- 85kg
          90kg Category >85kg- 90kg
          Over 90kg Category >90kg

          Rule 12 – Dress and Protective Gear
          Athletes

          Failure to comply with this rule will mean disqualification of the contestant from the competition.

          12.1 Competitors shall wear boxing gloves, headgear and chest protectors and use their own gum shields and cup protectors (under their trunks). Competitors' wear and protective gear shall be either red or black.

          12.2 The contestants must provide their own clothing, which must be clean and well presented. It shall consist of
          a shirt and trunks in the same colour as their protective gear. Female competitors may wear close-fitting undergarments. The Chief Head Judge will have the final say as to whether any clothing is or is not acceptable in competitions.

          12.3 The weight of gloves shall be 230 grams for 65kg category and under (and also for women of all
          categories), and 280 grams for the 70 kg category and above.

          12.4 Spectacles, hard contact lenses and dentures must not be worn.

          12.5 All jewellery, including such items as; rings, earrings, studs, pendants and necklaces must be removed.
          Rings, which cannot be removed, must be taped over. If the ring is still considered dangerous the
          contestant will not be allowed to take part. The Chief Head Judge will have the final say as to whether any such item is or is not acceptable in competitions.

          12.8 The contestants will be bare footed during the matches. However it is strongly recommended that all contestants wear appropriate foot covering when not engaged in match play.

          12.9 Personal hygiene. Contestants must commence the event in a clean non body odour manner with all hand and foot nails cut short and filed smooth
          Judges

          12.10 Judges will at all times present themselves in a clean and tidy appearance.

          Rule 14 – Method of Attack

          Movements of any wushu style or system, which are not forbidden by the rules, may be used to attack any valid
          target area on an opponent’s body. Kicks, strikes, sweeps and throws (only those mentioned in rule 22) are allowed,
          subject to the specific restrictions placed on these techniques by the rules and applied with variation according to participant’s age.

          Rule 15 – Valid Target Areas
          The sides of the head, the trunk and the thighs.

          Rule 16 – Methods of Defence
          Movements of any wushu style or system, unless specifically forbidden in the rules, may be used to defend against attacks.

          Rule 17 – Prohibited Techniques

          17.1 The following techniques are strictly prohibited:
          a. Striking to the face whether making contact or as a feint.
          b. Direct attacks to limbs and joints.
          c. Head butt, elbow and knee strikes or by twisting the opponent’s joints.
          d. Forcing the opponent to fall head over heels, or intentionally smashing or pressing him down.
          e. Hitting the opponent’s head by any means when he is already down.
          f. Dangerous throws - Any throw that is likely to cause serious injury (eg: neck, stomach and shoulder
          high throws). Throws which cause a contestant to land awkwardly on a vulnerable part of the anatomy
          (head, neck, spine, shoulder, knee or other joint etc...). Throws with a falling height from above chest
          level.
          g. Time wasting
          h. Finger thrusts to any part of the body.
          i. Choke or strangle techniques.
          j. Grappling or clinching for more than two (2) seconds.
          k. Grappling or wrestling on the mat.
          l. Arm locks and similar joint-locking techniques.
          m. Grasping an opponent with one or two hands and striking with the other hand or kicking.
          n. Biting, scratching, hair pulling, spitting etc...
          o. Continuous hitting to any part of the body especially the head.
          p. Pushing the opponent for more than 1 meter

          17.2 All techniques which are deliberately intended to injure the opponent rather than to score points are prohibited whether on target or not. The consideration will be judged on what would have happened if the blow had landed.

          17.3 Force of strikes is deemed reasonable at less than 10% of potential power for any category, more than that will be considered excessive and will lead to private or public warnings and/or disqualification (with or without prior warning).

          Rule 18 – Prohibited Areas of Attack
          The following parts of the body are prohibited to any type of attack.
          18.1 Face
          18.2 Back of the head.
          18.3 Neck
          18.4 The eyes and throat.
          18.5 The groin.
          18.6 The back (spine).
          18.7 The kidneys.
          18.8 The knees, elbows and other joints.
          "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

          Comment


          • #6
            Siheng, is there contingency in the rules if opponent turns his back on you.

            Back in my time the back was a target if the opponent spun or turned on
            purpose.

            It is an important point as many people when pressed will turn their back on you.

            I used that rule many times to my advantage back in the 80's....Gusty

            Comment


            • #7
              Fantastic thread, Robin - thank you!




              In Shan Shou / San Da and Qing Da rules, which of the following ways of punching would be allowed:


              Video Series: "Various Ways of Striking with the Fist in Shaolin Kungfu"


              For example, is striking with the forearm allowed? Striking the opponents limbs? Striking with the base or the side of the fist? Backhand fists?





              Best wishes,
              Markus Kahila
              Shaolin Nordic Finland

              www.shaolin-nordic.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Guys,

                Gusty, I don't think you can strike people's backs in San da and Qing da competitions, if you look at the rules strikes to the spine are illegal, I would imagine if you aim to hits someones back the judegs may not like it?

                Hi Markus, I think those strikes you mentioned would be OK, you would just have to avoid striking the elbow joint when aiming for an opponents arm.

                Best

                Robin
                "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you Robin,

                  The Quin Da, whilst very safe, also looks restrictive for us, what is the norm at such fights in terms of what is used. Do you have any video links to any suitable fights to watch?

                  Also interesting to see in San Shou that no open palm techniques can be used for striking. I guess they like to see more fists than Dragon.
                  Tim Franklin

                  http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
                  A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

                  www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

                  Fully Alive on Facebook Energy Flow for Health and Happiness

                  UK Summer Camp Qigong, Taijiquan, Shaolin Kung Fu, Spiritual Cultivation with Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I found the following link on youtube:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awz6gyYuscY
                    Tim Franklin

                    http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
                    A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

                    www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

                    Fully Alive on Facebook Energy Flow for Health and Happiness

                    UK Summer Camp Qigong, Taijiquan, Shaolin Kung Fu, Spiritual Cultivation with Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I found the following fight interesting for the BCCMA British Sanshou Championships.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUPy7...eature=related

                      With little or no guards or stances the fighters used what worked within the competition rules, namely simple strikes and low kicks.
                      Tim Franklin

                      http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
                      A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

                      www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

                      Fully Alive on Facebook Energy Flow for Health and Happiness

                      UK Summer Camp Qigong, Taijiquan, Shaolin Kung Fu, Spiritual Cultivation with Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For those looking to go into MMA venues rather than san shou, they typically allow open palm strikes.

                        pro example

                        amateur example
                        California Amateur Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) Jeremy Lappen JT Steele


                        Pretty much the same.
                        Shaolin Wahnam USA

                        "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi David,

                          MMA might be a few years away yet,

                          It's more useful to focus on Qing Da and San Da/Shou first.

                          Good links Tim,

                          The Qing Da video clip was fairly typical of what I have seen in competitions, but notice how throws are allowed too? So it is a little less restrictive than most 'semi contact' events.

                          Here is another Qing Da clip, you must skip to the 2.00 minute mark where the fight starts.

                          Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


                          The San Shou clip was good, but notice that was the San Shou 'novice' devision. That means when you go for your first fights you will most likely be placed with someone of a similar fight experience to you.

                          I beleive you are allowed 3 fights in the nocive devision before you have to move up. I think that is reasuring for anyone thinking of fighting.

                          Oh open hand strikes? In San Shou/San Da, boxing gloves of various sizes are used making it basically impossible to strike with an open hand palm strike.

                          Best

                          Robin
                          "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ah, that makes sense. Plus it's kinda like cleaning up our own back yard before going off to help others clean theirs?

                            My goal since I was a little 15 year old was to compete in MMA, so that is a direction I definitely want to head as soon as I am able. I thought I had missed my opportunity years ago, but Wahnam has rekindled my fire.
                            Shaolin Wahnam USA

                            "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              More Competition Rules

                              Do these make the rule book?
                              Arrival of the feet, arrival of the heart and arrival of the hands.
                              Almost forgot...arrival of the chocolate bar! Mmmmmmmm
                              Aaahhhhh!

                              Comment

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