vaccines and immune system

[Anton S.]

just do a search about the link between autism and vaccines. You will get astonished. Autism rate increases proportionally with the number of vaccines per child. Strange, isn't it?

And next time you see your Sifu, just ask him to tell you the story of his last children ... one vaccinated heavily and one on a very low basis. The differences in recurrent disorders speak for itself.

Dear Sisook,

sorry to hear from you this reaction. There is a rumor about the link between autism and MMR Vaccine (actually a conservation component Thiomersal) , which is proven to be wrong.

References:

1. Hviid A et al.: Association between thimerosal-containing vaccine and autism. JAMA. 290(13), 2003, S. 1763–1766 PMID 14519711 (PDF, 81 kB)
   
2. Miller E: Measles-mumps-rubella vaccine and the development of autism. Semin Pediatr Infect Dis. 14(3), 2003, S. 199–206 PMID 12913832
   
3. Fombonne E et al.: Pervasive developmental disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: prevalence and links with immunizations. Pediatrics. 118(1), 2006, S. e139–50 PMID 16818529 (PDF, 584 kB)
   
4. Shevell M et Fombonne E: Autism and MMR vaccination or thimerosal exposure: an urban legend?. Can J Neurol Sci. 33(4), 2006, S. 339–40 PMID 17168157
   
5. DeStefano F: Vaccines and autism: evidence does not support a causal association. Clin Pharmacol Ther. 82(6), 2007, S. 756–759 PMID 17928818
   
6. K. Weisser, K. Bauer, P. Volkers und B. Keller-Stanislawski (2004): Thiomersal und Impfungen. In: Bundesgesundheitsblatt – Gesundheitsforschung – Gesundheitsschutz. Bd. 47, S. 1165–1174. doi:10.1007/s00103-004-0943-z PDF
   
7. KFombonne E (2008): Thimerosal disappears but autism remains. In: Arch Gen Psychiatry. Bd. 65 (1), S. 15–16 PMIS 18180423

Simply search around you, asking people who get their children heavily vaccinated and those who do not -or not so heavily-, then compare the quality of life between these children, and you'll get what I mean then.

Following your advice I´ve checked around me: none of my vaccinated friends have autism.

Direct experience versus twisted statistics. Do not forget that much of the researches are done with the financial credits of pharmaceutical companies... Should I explain further?

There are studies funded by pharmaceutical companies and there are independent studies. It is known that funding influences the outcomes. This does´t mean automatically that all existing studies are not to be trusted at all.

You can make any kind of twisted extrapolations, like which children are living in countryside or this or that... in the end vaccines have a lot to reveal against themselves.

Have a nice Sunday!

There is no twisted extrapolation, the article you have posted has no reference and no homogenous group. It means the statistic is not to be trusted. It is highly questionable whether the study you have posted exists at all.

Respectfully, Anton.

[Maxime]

Dear Anton

sorry to hear from you this reaction.

What reaction? Everything is fine Sadhu I just have a strong Shen, and I am dedicated to protect the people from harm.

There is a rumor about the link between autism and MMR Vaccine (actually a conservation component Thiomersal) , which is proven to be wrong.

Proven by who? Another scientific study? Another 'scientific' consensus? And in 10 years they will again change their mind, as they always do?

Can the scientific today PROVE that the increasing peaks of autism following the incrasing peaks of vacination is just pure 'luck'? Anton, I do not trust all those scientific reports, but I trust my common sense. Increasing peak of autism parallel with the peak of vaccines = vaccination is not neutral. Point blank.

I was thinking that doctors should first follow the Hippocratic Law: FIRST DO NOT HARM.

Following your advice I´ve checked around me: none of my vaccinated friends have autism.

Nice joke But this proves nothing Anton! Better, do the other way round: check among autists how much is the rate of vaccination, and compare it to the non vaccinates. Also have you read the testimonials of the parents on the various websites? Are they all liars? Apparantly lots of them would disagree with you. Here is one for the record:

In 2008 I was given the DT (ADULT diphtheria, tetanus) vaccine on a Friday. Saturday woke up with a blinding headache. Monday headache turned into muscle and bone pain. Next week my arms and legs started getting numb working up to shoulders and hips in about a week, Doctor denied vaccine was responsible. Keep after him when symptoms kept getting worse. Finally sent me to the neurology department. They didn’t want to admit the vaccine was responsible. Diagnosed a allergy to tetanus. I took nutrients to detox the poison from my body. Took 8 months to get better. Still have a slight headache 24/7. Having survived stage 4 non hodgkin’s lymphoma in 2000 don’t believe my lowered immune system was able to handle the vaccine assult. Might have happened anyway. Never will I have ANY vaccine again.

Yep... Vaccines are perfectly safe.

There are studies funded by pharmaceutical companies and there are independent studies. It is known that funding influences the outcomes. This does´t mean automatically that all existing studies are not to be trusted at all.

I have never said that ALL researches were biased. But as you already said, 'funding influences the outcomes'. Clear enough for me. I can also play wirth this kind of rethoric: all reports that do not come from official sources are not necessarily biased and some of them - like some links I provided- are trustable. With tens of thousands of complaints (and lawsuits!) in the world regarding vaccines, are they all coming from irrelevant sources? Hmmm...

I have not enough time to write a book about this issue, much more interesting to keep on studying Chinese herbs (using your tips of course ).

I'll leave you this one:

New Zealand Survey (1992) (http://www.ias.org.nz)

The study involved 254 children. In which 133 children were vaccinated and 121 remained unvaccinated.

Result:
Symptom vaccinated unvaccinated
Asthma 20 (15%) 4 (3%)
Eczema or allergic rashes 43 (32%) 16 (13%)
Chronic otitis 26 (20%) 8 (7%)
Recurrent tonsillitis 11 (8%) 3 (2%)
Shortness of breath and sudden infant death syndrome 9 (7%) 2 (2%)
Hyperactivity 10 (8%) 1 (1%)

[Anton S.]

sadhu!

[Maxime]

:d

[Anton S.]

Hey Sisook,

just a side note:

proven by who?

I´ve listed the publications in the previous post.

Actually I had a vaccine described in the case report and had no single side effect. Chi Kung brings wonders

All in all it´s good to have different opinions That´s the reason that keeps the discussion forum alive, isn´t it?

Have a good sunday with Bensky, Natalie and Gizmo
Anton

[Dorit]

The age switch is because the older children are usually vaccinated, they don´t get measles. The non- or not-completly vaccinated younger children get the measles. This is the reason for measles to occur in a earlier age.

no - this is not true.
The elder children - 5-10 (as me myself) were not vacchinated against measles ... the thing is that those children being born by mothers vacchinated as childs have a risk to get measles at babies' age. The study I read about found out that those children being born by mothers who were not vacchinated against measles did get this illness at a later age. (Hopefully this is written understandably in English ...)

In our Western society allergies are increasing in a way that one of three children is allergic of a substance - in food, drugs, insecticide, detergents, other chemicals, mites, animal's hairs, pollen ... and the reasons are still unknown.
It is very obvious that anything - not only vacchination but also invention of special chemicals (also nano technology), poisoned food, exaggerated cleanliness ("Bakterienkiller") etc. - that interferes with our natural biochemical system of our body will disturb our immune system from child age on and create severe disturbing illnesses.
(Of course, I do not speak of energetic ways to eliminate these disturbances resp. prevent them, since our Western society thinks materialistically.)

[Maxime]

All in all it´s good to have different opinions That´s the reason that keeps the discussion forum alive, isn´t it?

Absolutely Brother. Furthemore, as we both know, this subject is delicate and tricky. I would never claim to have the only truth.

As a last point, I do not know now what Natalie and I will do regarding the vaccination of our children. I would be happy to exchange later with Anthony Sihing and Akemi on this subject, as I am sure they have some strong reasons for their choice.

Personally, I am not completely against vaccins, really, but what strongly alarms me is the huge quantity of reports and testimonials that highlight the danger and serious side effects of many of them.

Interestingly, my wife just asked me what we should do with vaccination. And she just told me about a scientific movie made in Russia (Moscow) about 5 years ago, where top Russian scientists and doctors made a great warning (with subsequential proofs and testimonials) about side-effects (deafness, death, etc.). We lost the movie but if we find it again, I will post the link.

Have a good sunday with Bensky, Natalie and Gizmo

Thank you for your kindness, I return many blessings and hugs to you!

[Shane Pickering]

Greetings friends.

I have found all of your comments and discussions both for and against immunisation quite interesting and picked up on requests for personal experience in this area as a better contribution to this discussion than a researched debate.

I have four children of my own, a young man of 14 and 3 little women of 12, 10 and 7 years, all of whom, my wife and I never hesitated to have immunised. We were also both immunised as young children as well.

I initially started to give a quite descriptive account of my children’s health but really in the scheme of things I have nothing to complain about at all, no adverse reactions. I can only state that they have had increased recovery times in the incidence of chicken pox and whooping cough than friends of mine whose kids are not immunised. In their case the recovery times from whooping cough lasted for 3-4 months back at Christmas and included the 3 children and 1 parent.

I have also personally worked in this area supervising nurses who give free childhood vaccination from the early 1990’s until present (over the years that would equate to about 15,000 vaccinations). Over that time I have not been aware of any allergic reactions. Having said that there is no argument that reactions can occur! Although the stats are something like 1:100,000 (I’m sure your googling that right now).

In Australia we have an estimated 95% of children being immunised. If we could get 100% of children immunised maybe we could see some of these diseases being eliminated from society all together (such was the case with small pox). Wouldn’t that be wonderful!

As to immunise or not that is your call.

Off to training now
Kind regards Shane.

[Antonius]

I recommend that anyone interested in the subject reads this book. It covers both the pro-vaccine and pro-choice arguments in detail, and contains a lot of references.

Vaccine Epidemic: How Corporate Greed, Biased Science, and Coercive Government Threaten Our Human Rights, Our Health, and Our Children

I would never presume to tell anyone whether or not to vaccinate. But I strongly believe that I have a right to choose, and that a government organization should not be allowed to make those decisions for me or my family. For those who are unaware, the right to choose is being assaulted here in the US.

[Antonius]

In Australia we have an estimated 95% of children being immunised. If we could get 100% of children immunised maybe we could see some of these diseases being eliminated from society all together (such was the case with small pox). Wouldn’t that be wonderful!

Hi Shane. This is a common argument by pro-vaccine people, but it is flawed. According to the theory of herd immunity, 95% should be more than enough to wipe out a disease. Raising the immunized rate up to 100% will make zero difference. Remember that many vaccinated children never develop immunity, and many unvaccinated children develop immunity on their own.

Also, your stats for the adverse reactions are incorrect, at least in the US. Keep in mind that many adverse reactions are not reported, or are ignored by doctors. But even the reported ones are much, much higher than 1:100,000.

[Dorit]

Dear Antonius Siheng,

I ordered the book ... hoping I will understand it!

Thank you for the link,
cordially,
Dorit

[Anton S.]

no - this is not true.
The elder children - 5-10 (as me myself) were not vacchinated against measles ... the thing is that those children being born by mothers vacchinated as childs have a risk to get measles at babies' age. The study I read about found out that those children being born by mothers who were not vacchinated against measles did get this illness at a later age. (Hopefully this is written understandably in English ...)

Dear Dorit,

it sounds interesting and I have never heard about this. I also did google it, but didn´t find anything. It would be very nice to read the article, in case you find it.

Kind regards, Anton.

[Dorit]

It would be very nice to read the article, in case you find it.

Dear Siheng Anton,
of course I will! The crux is ... when reading some interesting thing I mostly do not think of writing down the source. But I will investigate!

Best wishes und viele Gruesse,
Dorit

[Christopher]

A lot of vaccines use thimerosal (mercury) and other harmful agents as additives. They keep trying to 'ban' them in the USA/EU, but after a bunch of courtroom rulings and payouts the additives remain.

Ironically what you would NEED a vaccine most for, ie a 'superbug', would require a specialized vaccine for that strain and be taken massively throughout the population before it mutates (doubtful without massive government intervention). Also, if it was a superbug it would also be a very dangerous vaccine to try.

In either case it's much better to get an exemption, either religiously or you can simply claim you've already taken it. Many nurses/doctors who are required to be vaccinated but do not want to adopt these strategies. Like the tax code, they seem to make these loopholes on purpose.

[Anton S.]

A lot of vaccines use thimerosal (mercury) and other harmful agents as additives. They keep trying to 'ban' them in the USA/EU, but after a bunch of courtroom rulings and payouts the additives remain.

Dear Christopher,

thimerosal / thiomersal is no longer used as vaccine conservative, as far as I know.

KFombonne E (2008): Thimerosal disappears but autism remains. In: Arch Gen Psychiatry. Bd. 65 (1), S. 15–16 PMIS 18180423

Bigham M, Copes R (2005). "Thiomersal in vaccines: balancing the risk of adverse effects with the risk of vaccine-preventable disease". Drug Saf 28 (2): 89–101. doi:10.2165/00002018-200528020-00001. PMID 15691220.

Best, Anton.