Hello everyone,
I have been compelled to start this thread as a result of an interesting development in another. My aim is to enable all readers to have a deeper understanding on the concept of "Yielding". This is a very important concept of Kung Fu, especially the internal arts.
Speaking on the concept of yielding (please see Post 258 on the Shen Man Tao thread in this section of the forum), Sifu Stier said,
I find Sifu Stier's understanding of the yielding concept as revealed here shallow and will explain why further on.
Sifu Stier also said,
I find Sifu Stier's techniques as revealed here low-level and will explain why shortly.
Finally Sifu Stier most recently wrote:
This seems to advocate: just get out of the way of the attacker and hope that they fall, stumble or otherwise manage to knock themselves out.
Here are my reasons why I think Sifu Stiers concept of Yielding is shallow and why his techniques are low level:
This statement shows Sifu Stier is unaware that yielding is part of a countering process, and not a complete process by itself. In other words a competent martial artist does not merely yield and stop there. Doing so would be committing the mistake of having yin without yang. This will result in the yielding practitioner in an awkward position. If I remember correctly, in an earlier post connected with the Bow-Arrow Stance (but I cannot remember which post) Sifu Stier did mention about the occurrence of this awkward position following yielding. This further confirms his shallow understanding of the yielding concept.Yielding is to lead the opponent to futility, then his attacking momentum is turned against the opponent himself, thus completing the yang part of the yin-yang harmony. This continuous process is expressed in Chinese as 'xian hua hou ji', which means 'first neutralize then attack'. In Shaolin Kung Fu it is expressed as 'dun du', or 'swallow-shoot'.
The techniques used here are low-level for the following reasons:
1. They do not take advantage of the 'xian hua hou ji' principle, which is actually the main principle underlying the yielding tactic. In other words, they defeat the purpose of yielding.
2. Sifu Stier presumes that there is a wall or some unmoving solid object, and there is some obstacle on the ground or something solid. If these presumed objects are not present, these techniques would be futile.
3. On the other hand, if these presumed objects are present, they may be disadvantageous to Sifu Stier. Following Sifu Stier's pulling momentum, the opponent may push Sifu Stier onto the wall. Following Sifu Stier's pushing momentum, he may pull Sifu Stier to fall onto the obstacle.
4. There are many more effective techniques to use in place of those suggested by Sifu Stier. For example, when an opponent pushes, the exponent may respond with 'Black Bear Sinks Hips' to cause the opponent to fall onto his front knee. When the opponent pulls, the exponent may use 'Shoulder Strike' to ram into the opponent's chest.
5. Notwithstanding this, as we are on the topic of yielding, we should use its underlying principle of 'first neutralize then attack'. One example each is as follows. As the opponent pushes, first neutralize (or yield) to his push, then redirecting his momentum throw him onto the ground with 'Carry Tiger Back to Mountain' (called 'Felling Tree with Roots' in Shaolin Kungfu.) As the opponent pulls, follow his momentum and responds with 'Cross Hands Thrust Kick' to his chest (called 'White Horse Presents Hoof'' in Shaolin Kungfu.)
I shall leave it here for now as I'm going to source some suitable pictures to illustrate the points I have made. Until then I look forward to how this thread develops.
Kind regards
Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha
I have been compelled to start this thread as a result of an interesting development in another. My aim is to enable all readers to have a deeper understanding on the concept of "Yielding". This is a very important concept of Kung Fu, especially the internal arts.
Speaking on the concept of yielding (please see Post 258 on the Shen Man Tao thread in this section of the forum), Sifu Stier said,
'Yielding' is no longer a matter of trying to avoid the fight, but now entails acceding to their wishes by giving them what they insist on having...i.e. a good fight.'
Sifu Stier also said,
'If they choose to charge forward...let them do so, and pull them face first into the wall or some other unmoving, solid object. If they choose to pull you...let them do so, and push them backward to stumble over some obstacle on the ground or into something solid.'
Finally Sifu Stier most recently wrote:
A skilled, trained defender with good automatic reaction and spontaneous response skills already in place will at least have a chance to lean, turn, twist, bend, duck, step, jump, or otherwise get out of harm's way in that micro-second window of opportunity to do so. It is not at all unusual when this happens, that the attacker has set in motion more speed, power, and momentum than they can control if it doesn't make contact with the intended target. And so they fall into or onto something sufficiently solid and immovable to hurt themselves...perhaps seriously.
Here are my reasons why I think Sifu Stiers concept of Yielding is shallow and why his techniques are low level:
'Yielding' is no longer a matter of trying to avoid the fight, but now entails acceding to their wishes by giving them what they insist on having...i.e. a good fight.'
'If they choose to charge forward...let them do so, and pull them face first into the wall or some other unmoving, solid object. If they choose to pull you...let them do so, and push them backward to stumble over some obstacle on the ground or into something solid.'
1. They do not take advantage of the 'xian hua hou ji' principle, which is actually the main principle underlying the yielding tactic. In other words, they defeat the purpose of yielding.
2. Sifu Stier presumes that there is a wall or some unmoving solid object, and there is some obstacle on the ground or something solid. If these presumed objects are not present, these techniques would be futile.
3. On the other hand, if these presumed objects are present, they may be disadvantageous to Sifu Stier. Following Sifu Stier's pulling momentum, the opponent may push Sifu Stier onto the wall. Following Sifu Stier's pushing momentum, he may pull Sifu Stier to fall onto the obstacle.
4. There are many more effective techniques to use in place of those suggested by Sifu Stier. For example, when an opponent pushes, the exponent may respond with 'Black Bear Sinks Hips' to cause the opponent to fall onto his front knee. When the opponent pulls, the exponent may use 'Shoulder Strike' to ram into the opponent's chest.
5. Notwithstanding this, as we are on the topic of yielding, we should use its underlying principle of 'first neutralize then attack'. One example each is as follows. As the opponent pushes, first neutralize (or yield) to his push, then redirecting his momentum throw him onto the ground with 'Carry Tiger Back to Mountain' (called 'Felling Tree with Roots' in Shaolin Kungfu.) As the opponent pulls, follow his momentum and responds with 'Cross Hands Thrust Kick' to his chest (called 'White Horse Presents Hoof'' in Shaolin Kungfu.)
I shall leave it here for now as I'm going to source some suitable pictures to illustrate the points I have made. Until then I look forward to how this thread develops.
Kind regards
Marcus
Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha
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