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WING CHOON KUNGFU - 10 Questions to Grandmaster Wong

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  • #16
    Thank you Tim and all the rest for your contributions.

    Another answer from Sifu:

    Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 2

    Question 2

    The Wooden Dummy seems synonymous with Wing Choon. Where did the Wooden Dummy originate and what benefits do Wing Choon practitioners get from training with one?

    Is the Wooden Dummy (or its equivalent) found in any other style of Kung Fu?

    Sifu Kevin


    The wooden dummy only seems to be synonymous with Wing Choon Kungfu, but is not. In Choe Family Wing Choon practiced in our school, for example, we do not need a wooden dummy.

    I believe that the arms of our Wing Choon practitioners, including our female practitioners, could be more powerful than those of practitioners of other Wing Choon schools or other styles. This is because we train internal force. Generally internal force is more powerful than external strength derived from hitting a wooden dummy.

    I myself was a living example. When I learned Southern Shaolin from Uncle Righteousness in Penang, I hit a wooden dummy really hard every night. Then I applied medicated vinegar to relieve injury and to strengthen my arms. My arms were hard and powerful compared to ordinary people, and even compared to other external martial artists.

    But when I learned Wuzuquan from Sifu Chee Kim Thong in Dungun, my arms were literally nothing compared to the arms of my classmates. My classmates did not hit any wooden dummy. They developed internal force using San Zhan. After knocking arms with them, my arms were badly swollen and had to me in medicated bandage for a week.

    Later when I learned Shaolin Kungfu from Sifu Ho Fatt Nam in Kuala Trengganu, I developed internal force using One-Finger Shooting Zen. When I was posted to Alor Star I met a Shaolin master who trained Iron Arm externally. He attempted to impress me with his Iron Arm by banging his arm against a pillar which literally shook.

    But I was not impressed. He might be annoyed. He asked me to knock arms with him. He swung his arm hard on mine, perhaps wanting to break my arm. He didn’t know I had trained Golden Bell. The harder he knocked at my arm, the harder it bounced his arm back. He could last only two hits!

    When I learned Choe Family Wing Choon from Sifu Choe Hoong Choy, there was a wooden dummy in his house where we trained. There was also a wooden dummy set. But in a few years training there, I saw only a few students practicing with the wooden dummy.

    I doubted Yim Wing Choon, the founder of Wing Choon Kungfu, and its early masters like Leong Chan, practiced with a wooden dummy. They developed internal force through Siu Lin Tou.

    I don’t know how or from where the wooden dummy originated in Wing Choon Kungfu. Personally I do not find many benefits practicing with the wooden dummy. Practitioners may harden their arms, but not necessarily increase their striking force.

    Hardening arms and increasing force are quite different, and many people may not realize it. Practicing Siu Lin Tou as an internal art produces much more internal force and powerful arms than hitting a wooden dummy. In my opinion, the best benefit of practicing with a wooden dummy is to improve accuracy in striking.

    The wooden dummy is also found in Choy-Li-Fatt and Hoong Ka Kungfu, especially when these styles are practiced as external arts.
    Daniel Pérez


    • #17
      Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 3 - Part 1

      Question 3

      Sifu, Can you please explain the strengths and weaknesses of Wing Choon Kung Fu?



      I shall explain the strength and weakness of Wing Choon Kungfu popularly practiced in the world today. There are only a few unarmed sets in this style of Wing Choon Kungfu, namely Siu Lim Tou, Cham Kiew and Phew Chee, and this style uses mainly the Four-Sex Stance.

      There are two weapon sets using the Butterfly Knives and the long staff. As sparring using weapons is not popular today, we shall focus our discussion on its strength and weakness on the unarmed dimension, mentioning the weapon dimension only on passing.

      Because there are only a few sets, practitioners of this style of Wing Choon Kungfu can spend much time on sparring, unlike in some styles where students spend most of the time performing their many sets. This makes these Wing Choon practitioners combat efficient, whereas most other kungfu practitioners only demonstrate beautiful forms, or use kick-boxing if they have to spar. This is their strength.

      On the other hand, if these Wing Choon practitioners meet other kungfu practitioners who have a wide range of techniques, presuming that their skill levels are about the same, the Wing Choon practitioners will face a big disadvantage. This is their weakness.

      For example, if a Tantui practitioner uses continuous kicks, a Drunken Eight Immortal practitioner uses felling techniques, or a Choy-Li-Fatt practitioner uses hard pressing attacks on a Wing Choon practitioner, the Wing Choon practitioner would have difficulty facing these attacks. This was probably the main reason the celebrated Bruce Lee abandoned Wing Choon Kungfu and developed his Jeet Koon Do. It is therefore ironical that many Wing Choon practitioners today glorify Bruce Lee, a martial artist who abandoned their art!

      However, if the Wing Choon practitioner is of a high level, like a genuine Wing Choon master, he could easily use typical Wing Choon techniques to counter Tantui kicks, Drunken Eight Immortal felling techniques, Choy-Li-Fatt pressing attacks, and any other attacks from opponents of a lower skill level. Here, the deciding factor is skill. The Wing Choon master could defeat his opponents, regardless of what techniques they use, because he is of a higher skill level.

      If both have the same level of skills, the limited range of techniques of popular Wing Choon Kungfu would be a weakness. Because of the small range of techniques in his repertoire, a Wing Choon practitioner would find it difficult to defend against the continuous kicks of a Taekwondo exponent, the throws of a Judoka or the locks of a Jujitsu practitioner of the same skill level.

      Fortunately for the Wing Choon practitioner today, this weakness is not very significant because regardless of what his opponents practice, whether it is Taekwondo, Judo, Jujitsu, Tantui, Choy-Li-Fatt or whatever martial art, when they spar they will still bounce about like Boxers. So, all the Wing Choon practitioner has to do is to rush in with a serious of chain punches, which give a semblance of Wing Choon Kungfu. If he has big muscles due to weight-lifting, which traditional Wing Choon practitioners would not practice, it would add to his advantage.

      However, if you have similar level of combat skills as the muscular charging Wing Choon exponent, including similar sparring experience, and employ a Taijiquan technique to cover his chain-punches adequately, a Baguazhang technique to get to his back, or a Monkey style technique to slip below him to steal his peaches, the Wing Choon practitioner would not know what to do because he did not have the necessary counter techniques in his limited repertoire.

      It is interesting to note that the strength of popular Wing Choon Kungfu is also its weakness. It limited range of techniques gives its practitioner more time to spend on sparring. However, if an opponent is of a similar skill level, the limited range of techniques becomes a weakness.

      Another example where its strength can also become its weakness is that Wing Choon Kungfu is meant for the small-size against a bigger, physically stronger opponent. Wing Choon techniques are such that being big size, including having big muscles, is a disadvantage. Wing Choon force training is such that having big muscles is a disadvantage. And having succeeded in developing internal force in Wing Choon Kungfu, a small-sized Wing Choon practitioner can be more powerful than a bigger-sized opponent.

      A Wing Choon student will have this strength of the art if he applies Wing Choon techniques the way they should be applied, and trained Wing Choon internal force the way it should be trained. If he does otherwise, like using Wing Choon techniques like in Boxing, or developing muscular strength by lifting weights instead of training internal force using Siu Lim Tou, the strength becomes a weakness.
      Daniel Pérez


      • #18
        Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 3 - Part 2

        (Continued from Part 1)

        Wing Choon Kungfu is excellent for one-to-one combat, ranging from beginners’ to masters’ levels. This is its strength. However, the nature of popular Wing Choon is such that it is not suitable for mass fighting. If a group of assailants attack a master of popular Wing Choon at the same time, he would have difficulty fighting the group. This is its weakness.

        These examples of the strength and weakness apply to styles of Wing Choon Kungfu popularly practiced in the world today. While the strength remains, the weakness does not apply to some little known styles of Wing Choon Kungfu, including Choe Family Wing Choon practiced in our school.

        In the little known styles of Wing Choon Kungfu, including Choe Family Wing Choon, there are many other unarmed sets and weapon sets in addition to those practice in the popular styles.

        In Choe Family Wing Choon, for example, the three unarmed sets of Siu Lim Tou, Cham Kiew and Phew Chee of the popular styles, are incorporated into one set, Siu Lin Tou. There are about a dozen other unarmed sets, like Flower Set, Tiger-Crane, Battle Palm, Choy-Li-Fatt, Drunken Eight Immortals, and Essence of Fighting.

        Besides the Butterfly Knives and the Long Staff practiced in the popular styles of Wing Choon, in Choe Family Wing Choon there are about a dozen other weapon sets, like the sabre, the spear, the big trident, the kungfu bench and the Guan Dao. In Choe Family Wing Choon, the butterfly knives set is called Human-Character Double Southern Knives, whereas in popular Wing Choon styles it is called Eight-Chop Knives. The long staff set is similar in both Choe Family Wing Choon and other popular Wing Choon styles, and is called Six-and-Half-Point Staff.

        These extra sets, by a big number, are sufficient to off-set the weakness experienced in the popular Wing Choon styles. If a Taekwondo exponent executes kick at a practitioner of Choe Family Wing Choon, for example, he can apply techniques from other sets to overcome the kicks. If a group of assailants attack him, he can apply techniques from Choy-Li-Fatt or Drunken Eight Immortals to overcome them.

        The limited weapon sets in the popular styles of Wing Choon is also a strength and weakness. Like in unarmed sets, as there are only two weapon sets, it gives practitioners more time to enhance their skills in these weapons. The Six-and-Half-Point Staff has become a very formidable weapon.

        On the other hand, it is also a weakness because practitioners have no chance to explore other weapons. Not only understanding other weapons will enhance performance in the butterfly knives or long staff, if a practitioner chooses that as his choice weapon, but also it will enhance other aspects of his unarmed kungfu, and by extension in his daily life.

        After the Special Wing Choon Course in Penang in 2010, we were generous enough to post some videos on YouTube revealing some secrets of Wing Choon. Some critics under the cloak of anonymity ridiculed our videos in the public comments saying that our counters were useless. Some complained that ours was not Wing Choon Kungfu.

        An instructor in our Free Sparring Competition Committee traced the real persons behind the anonymity and invited them for some free sparring with out students to see whether our counters were useless. Despite the big talk of the critics, no one took up our invitation. Our instructor also found out that the one who made the most noise, especially regarding our counters against kicks, was a student of his junior during his Karate days before he joined Shaolin Wahnam.

        We walk our talk. We do not challenge others, and we respect their right and privilege to practice whatever they like in whatever way they like. But if anyone ridicules and challenges us, and as scholar-warriors after making sure we can beat him in a fight, we shall accept the challenge. I have mentioned this a few times, and would take this opportunity to repeat. Any student or instructor representing our school in a challenge, must not be afraid or be hesitant in hurting his opponent drastically, even fatally. It is a challenge, not a friendly match. We must of course make sure that there will be no legal implications afterwards.

        Those who say that our Wing Choon is not Wing Choon are only showing their lack of exposure. It may not be the Wing Choon they practice, but it is certainly Choe Family Wing Choon.
        Daniel Pérez


        • #19
          Dear Daniel,

          The last time we met and enjoyed crossing hands was in July 2005 at the Shaolin Kungfu-Wahnam Taijiquan Combined Intensive Course in Malaysia. I trust that all is well with you and yours.

          Thank you for opening and leading this thread on 10 questions to Sifu on Wing Choon Kungfu.

          I have just discovered and read the whole thread from start to finish. Wow, wow, wow. So many questions I have had about Yip Man Wing Choon Kungfu are addressed here. Topics such as the 'centre line' and the 'strengths and weaknesses' of Wing Choon Kungfu are hot topics for me. Some of my friends also have background training in Yip Man Wing Choon, so I look forward to sharing some of these 'gifts' from Sifu with them.

          I would like to wish you and all participants at the Wing Choon course with Sifu in Barcelona, the very best of fun and success.

          Finally, and most importantly, a whole-hearted shaolin salute and sincere gratitude to Sifu for so generously sharing fine points that I truly thought were already lost.

          With gratitude, love and respect,

          Emiko Hsuen

          Taught by Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit
          4th generation successor of the Southern Shaolin Monastery
          Small and Big Universe Course: Nov 21 to 25
          Becoming a Shaolin Wahnam Kungfu Practitioner: Nov 26 to Dec 2
          Cultivating Spirit Nourishing Energy: Dec 2 to Dec 8
          Intensive Chi Kung Course: Dec 9 to Dec 13
          To apply, send email to:


          • #20
            Dear Emiko,

            Thank you for your words and I´m glad you´re enjoying this Q&A series on Wing Choon.
            True, we have to be thankful to Sifu for this gems.

            Another question and answer:

            Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 4 - Part 1

            Question 4

            How can Wing Choon Kung Fu benefit/enhance my Taijiquan practice?



            To be systematic, we can answer your question under four headings, namely form, skill, application and philosophy.

            Wing Choon forms and Taijiquan forms are diagonally opposite. Wing Choon forms are short and linear, whereas Taijiquan forms are long and circular.

            Let us take a typical Wing Choon technique and a typical Taijiquan technique for comparison.

            A typical Wing Choon attack is “Phew Chee”, or a finger-thrust, to an opponent’s throat. The attack goes straight form the chest of a Wing Choon exponent to the opponent’s throat in the shortest, fastest manner. The distance traveled by the attack is about a foot.

            A typical Taijiquan attack is “Green Dragon Shoots Pearl”, or a circular palm strike at an opponent’s face or chest. When a Taijiquan exponent uses his right palm in a left Bow-Arrow Stance, the attack, as the exponent rotates his waist, goes from somewhere near his right thigh in a big arc first slightly backward, next upward and then forward to strike the opponent’s face or chest. The distance covered is about five feet.

            The Wing Choon technique is short and straight, moving only a foot. The Taijiquan technique is long and circular, moving about five feet. If the speed of both combatants is the same, the Taijiquan attack would take 5 times longer to reach. One may wonder how could a Taijiquan practitioner hope to defeat a Wing Choon practitioner. The fact is that a Taijiquan practitioner could defeat a Wing Choon practitioner even when both of them move at the same speed!

            Understanding the hows and whys will benefit both Wing Choon and Taijiquan practitioners as well as practitioners of other martial arts. As a Taijiquan practitioner, learning the Wing Choon technique will enable you to better appreciate the benefits of the Taijiquan technique. As an analogy, if you practiced Taiji dance before, you will better appreciate when you practice genuine Taijiquan.

            There are many situations when using the Taijiquan attack is more advantageous than using the Wing Choon attack. If an opponent is very fast, like a Boxer, for example, slowing him down without his knowing using the Taijiquan attack is more advantageous than the Wing Choon attack.

            When an opponent attacks you, using the Taijiquan “Green Dragon Shoots Pearl”, which deflect the opponent’s attack cum striking him, is more advantageous than “Phew Chee”. Although in theoretical time the Taijiquan attack is 5 times slower than the Wing Choon attack, in real time it is still fast enough for an effective strike. If the Wing Choon attack takes a quarter of a second, the Taijiquan attack takes one and a quarter seconds.

            Moreover, this Taijiquan counter runs into the opponent’s attack. In other words, the Taijiquan exponent does not start his counter after his opponent has completed his initial attack; he does so while the initial attack is in progress. If a Wing Choon practitioner takes a quarter of a second to execute his finger-thrust a foot away, by moving your body backward a foot more as you rotate your waist to start your defence-cum-attack, your opponent would take half a second to reach you.

            By then you would have brushed away his attack, and your counter-attack is on the way, and will reach him in three quarters of a second. If you could make him fall forward when you brush away his initial attack, in which case you would have to simultaneously move slightly to your right side so that you opponent would not fall onto you, you would hit him while he is falling.

            By slowing down your attack in using the Taijiquan technique, you will be in a better position to make changes if an opponent uses feint moves or tricks you in any way. This will be more difficult if you use a short, straight Wing Choon finger-thrust.

            When you chase an opponent, like a Boxer, using one hand to control him and the other hand to strike him as in “Green Dragon Shoots Pearl”, is more advantages than using a short, straight finger-thrust, which may expose you to his counter strikes. As you are chasing him, safety first is of utmost importance, and striking him fast is of secondary importance. The Wing Choon finger-thrust does not have this advantage.

            On the other hand, learning the Wing Choon finger-thrust will benefit and enhance your Taijiquan in many years. Instead of striking your opponent’s throat with “White Snake Shoots Venom” in the orthodox Taijiquan way, when the situation warrants it, you can execute the same pattern in a Wing Choon way.

            Puritans may cry that this is Wing Choon and not Taijiquan. They become a slave to their art, instead of mastering it. Tell them, if they are willing to listen, that kungfu is alive.
            Daniel Pérez


            • #21
              Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 4 - Part 2

              (Continued from Part 1)

              Practical experience of the short, straight movement of Wing Choon Kungfu will enhance your effort in reducing big forms of Taijiquan into small forms, which is essential for combat efficiency. Instead of moving your “Green Dragon Shoots Pearl” in 5 feet, you can reduce the circular movement into two feet. Gradually, when your whole body has been filled with flowing chi, you can execute the same technique in just 3 inches away, even shorter and faster than the Wing Choon movement.

              You can still achieve this ability without learning the Wing Choon finger-thrust. But if you do, you will achieve the result faster and better. If learning just one Wing Choon technique can give us so much benefit, we can imagine how much a Wing Choon course can benefit and enhance Taijiquan.

              Form is only one aspect that Wing Choon Kungfu can benefit and enhance Taijiquan. Another aspect is skill, or “gong” in Chinese.

              Wing Choon Kungfu is well known for two special skills, “chi sau” and “chun keng”, or “sticking hands” and “inch force”.

              “Sticking Hands” trains sensing skill. When your arms are in contact with an opponent’s, not only you can sense his movements without looking at them, like how and where he attacks, but also his intentions, like whether he is hesitant or nervous. At a higher level, you may sense his movements and intension even without contact.

              Participants at the Special Wing Choon Course in Penang in 2010 did very well in this area. They could sense their opponents very well even when blind-folded. You can view some videos at

              A few participant told me that their sensing skill had developed so efficiently that during sparring with their eyes open they found it more effective using their sensing skill without looking at the attack, than seeing the attack with their eyes. However, due to time factor, blind-fold sticking hands is not likely to be taught at the coming Wing Choon course in Barcelona. But practitioners of other kungfu styles, particularly Taijiquan practitioners, will benefit much from the sessions of sticking hands which will be taught.

              Taijiqua, practitioners also train sensing skill using Pushing Hands. But the approach is different. In our school, in Taijiquan Pushing Hands, the pattern, “Immortal Waves Sleeves”, is used. In Wing Choon Kungfu, two patterns, “Circulating Hands” and “Covering Hands”, are used. These two patterns are also found in Taijiquan. They are open Cloud Hands and close Cloud Hands.

              In other Wing Choon and Taijiquan schools, Sticking Hands and Pushing Hands are performed in a routine with many patterns. In my observation, this methodology greatly minimizes their training opportunities. Instead of developing sensing skill, they focus on following their routine. It is like performing a combination set, commonly known as a two-man set, which serves the purpose of demonstration rather than combat training.

              Hence, in our Sticking Hands and Pushing Hands, I purposely reduce the techniques to the minimum so that students can focus on developing skills, and not on learning techniques or worse on remembering their routine.

              Like Taijiquan Pushing Hands, a main aim of Wing Choon Sticking Hands is to develop sensing skill. But the movements are different. In Sticking Hands, students employ Wing Choon techniques, whereas in Pushing Hands, students employ Taijiquan techniques. Taijiquan practitioners will benefit much by learning Wing Choon skills, and vice versa.

              If an opponent executes a middle attack, for example, a Wing Choon practitioner would use “pak sau” or “slap-hand” when he is using “covering hands” in his “sticking hands”, or “tan sau” or “mirror-hand” when he is using “circulating hands”. Against a same attack, a Taijiquan practitioner would use “ward off”.

              The movements are quite different. In “slap-hand” and “mirror-hand”, the movement is linear. In “ward off”, the movement is circular. Linear movement is faster, but the counter-strike is not necessarily so.
              Daniel Pérez


              • #22
                Wow! :-)

                Dear Sifu,

                Thank you so much for these amazing answers. Thank you for all the time that you take on teaching me. It is very much appreciated.

                One month has passed since February Courses. In only one month I have changed so much inside that I don't even feel that I am the same person anymore. My confidence has increased, my anxiety has been reduced, my mental clarity is sharper and I feel more courage.

                As soon as I came back from the February Courses I did an internal interview for becoming a trainer in my company. It is just an informal position for helping the other trainer as she has a lot of work and cannot deal with all of it. This position does not substitute my actual role, it is just a complement. The reason why I applied for this position is because I really enjoy training others and because by teaching others I have experienced a huge improvement in my own skills.

                I will share the story as a way to demonstrate how wonderful results I am getting thanks to your teachings. We were told to prepare a presentation for the interview. The presentation had to explain what were the keys for being a good trainer. To be honest, I felt that I did not have to prepare any presentation at all. I just had to think of you, Sifu as you are the best teacher that I know and the one that I admire most. In order to point what I was going to talk about I went to your Website and I printed for myself the "List of topics to be covered at the Art of Teaching Course".

                By reading this list I realised how useful this list could be for any teacher of any kind. Your teaching methodology it is honestly amazing. By reading this list I understood how much did I learned without being aware of it. Thank you for that.

                My interviewers shared with me that they were surprised that I did not have any powerpoint for supporting my presentation. I explained them that in that particular situation I was not in need for a Powerpoint as I was going to be more effective without it.

                During my presentation I explained them the difference between techniques and skills, the importance of demonstrations, analogies, questions and answers, defining aim and objetives, and so on. I basically mentioned some points of your list as I only had 10 minutes for the total presentation.

                They were actually amazed with the way I was transmitting the presentation and all the topics that I was able to cover in such a short time. I even put some Taijiquan examples and performed in front of them "Grasping Sparrow's Tail". I think that they were surprised for this uncommon presentation. I will list below the most important points in the Feedback that they shared with me:


                - Very confident in the ability to perform the role.
                - Understands science of training and showed a genuine passion for it.
                - Good motivation for the role.
                - Good eye contact, engaging and checked understanding with participants.
                - Great use of analogy and body language while presenting.
                - Delivery skills are clearly evident as is knowledge of how to train people.

                Development areas

                - Ask more questions.
                - No clear structure.
                - Need to sell yourself better.
                - The main points must be covered.

                A couple of days later they communicated results and I got the position. Before, I used to hate when someone was giving some "Development areas" feedback. Now I love it as I see an opportunity for improvement there. I learned that approach from you, Sifu. You are always searching for improvement. That is why your courses always bring me more than what I expected. That is why I know that this Wing Chung Course it is going to be amazing and it will benefit from all the previous courses.

                Daniel Sifu, thank you so much for bringing us this opportunity for deepening in our Kung Fu skills. Thank you to all the participants of this thread and thank you too for all your questions.

                With Love, Care and Shaolin Salute,

                Last edited by sancrica; 27 March 2014, 09:51 PM. Reason: Grammar Correction :-)


                • #23
                  Santiago, I´m glad you´re receiving so many benefits from Sifu´s teachings and enjoying this thread.

                  Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 4 - Part 3

                  (Continued from Part 2)

                  In Wing Choon Sticking Hands, your right hand is in contact with your opponent’s left hand. If he uses his left hand to execute a middle strike, and you use your right “slap-hand” to deflect it away to your left (when you are performing “covering hands”), or your right “mirror-hand” to deflect it to your right (when you are performing “circulating hands”), your “slap-hand” movement or “mirror-hand” movement is about 6 inches. In either case, you need to use your left hand to cover his left hand before you use your right hand to counter strike with a finger-thrust, with your attack traveling about 1 foot.

                  In Taijiquan Oushing Hands, your right hand is in contact with your opponent’s right hand. If he uses his right hand to execute a middle strike, and you use your right hand to ward off, deflecting his attack forward and diagonally to your right, your ward off movement is about 1 foot. Immediately you counter strike with a White Snake Shoots Venom, with your attack traveling about 6 inches. This is second class Taijiquan. In first class Taijiquan which we practice in our school, the White Snake attack is incorporated in the ward off, with the defence-cum-counter traveling about 1 foot. Hence, although the Taijiquan movement is circular and is technically slower than a straight Wing Choon movement, your Taijiquan attack arrives faster than a Wing Choon attack.

                  Inch-force is developed in Siu Lin Tou. Using inch-force, a Wing Choon practitioner can injure an opponent within inches, instead of using muscular strength derived from lifting weights.

                  The methodology of training inch-force is different from that in Taijiquan force training. In inch-force training, energy is consolidated and exploded out within inches in a linear manner. In Taijiquan force training, energy is made to flow in circular movement, and having picked up momentum is exploded out in a continuous flow. Taijiquan practitioners will benefit much from learning inch-force training.

                  At an advanced level, when a Taijiquan practitioner has filled his whole body with chi, by just practicing Taijiquan he can explode force within inches. But if he also learns inch-force, he will attend the result faster and better by a big margin. This is the advantage of breadth and depth.

                  Another dimension where a Taijiquan practitioner can benefit much from learning Wing Choon Kungfu is application. Application can be martial or non-martial. Non-martial application of Taijiquan enhanced by Wing Choon Kungfu is a special feature of our school, usually not present in most other schools.

                  The combat application of Wing Choon Kungfu is in direct contrast with that of Taijiquan. For most students of other schools, learning Wing Choon Kungfu and Taijiquan together may be detrimental, as the benefits of one cancel out the other. But in our school, which is unprecedented in kungfu history, learning these two arts or any contrasting arts together is mutually beneficial as their benefits enhance one another.

                  Wing Choon Kungfu is know for its economy of movement. A Wing Choon practitioner would not use two moves if one is sufficient, or a longer distance if a shorter one is available. On the other hand, Taijiquan is reverse. A Taijiquan practitioner may, by choice, use two moves when one is sufficient, or a longer distance when a shorter one is available. In our school, due to the benefit of breadth and depth, learning Wing Choon Kungfu will bebefit and enhance Taijiquan, and vice cersa.
                  Daniel Pérez


                  • #24
                    Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 4 - Part 4

                    (Continued from Part 3)

                    In combat application, if a Muay Thai fighter executes a right sweeping kick at you, you can move forward slightly to your right and simultaneously execute a finger-thrust at his throat while he is still kicking. This is the economy of movement of Wing Choon Kungfu. You strike down an opponent as soon as he makes a move!

                    If you use Taijiquan, your respond will be different. You will move back a small step into White Crane flaps Wings in a T-step to let his sweeping kick past. Immediately, while your opponent is recovering himself, you move forward and fell him using “Carry Tiger Back to Mountain”.

                    You avoid his kick first, so as to be safe. In case his first kick is a feint move, you are in time to make adjustment. Even when his kick is real, if you move in too early, if he is skillful he can make instant changes to strike you. You let his attack past, then while he recovers himself, you move in to strike him, using the principle, “start later but arrive earlier”.

                    If you have learnt Wing Choon Kungfu, you can use the Wing Choon move to enhance your own Taijiquan counter. You may, for example, if you are skillful move forward slightly to your right and fell him with Carry Tiger Back to Mountain the moment he starts his right sweeping kick. You must, of course, be ready for his feint moves or instant change.

                    This combat principle can be fruitfully used in daily life. If you wish to date a girl, for example, using Taijiquan, you may ask as follows.

                    “Are you free this Saturday night?”

                    When she says yes, you continue with, “I’ll like to take you our for dinner.”

                    If she says no, you can ask, “What about Sunday night?”

                    You give yourself room for maneuver.

                    If you have learnt Wing Choon Kungfu, you will make only one move instead of two or three.

                    You say, “I’ll like to take you out for dinner on Saturday night.”

                    Even when she is not free on Saturday night but likes to go out with you, she will make her own adjustment. If you ask her the Taijiquan way, you would miss this opportunity.

                    What happens if she is really not free on Saturday night and cannot make any adjustment?

                    In typical Wing Choon move, you can then say, “then I’ll like to take you out on Sunday night or any night you are free.”

                    Someone who practices only Taijiquan, and has his Taijiquan training internalized in him, would not make such moves.

                    He would say things like below.

                    “As you are not free on Saturday night, are you free on Sunday night?”

                    “What do you do no Sunday night?”

                    “Do you like to see a movie or go for dinner?”

                    After going round in circular movements, the Taijiquan practitioner would eventaull ask, “Would you like to go out with me on Sunday night?”

                    The Wing Choon practitioner, who has Wing Choon training internalized in him, would go straight to the point: “I’ll like to take you out on Sunday night.”

                    Learning Wing Choon kungfu will enhance your application of strategies in everyday life for mutual benefit.
                    Daniel Pérez


                    • #25
                      Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 4 - Part 5

                      (Continued from Part 4)

                      The fourth dimension is philosophy. Both Wing Choon Kungfu and Taijiquan are effective for the smaller sized person against bigger and physically stronger opponents. But their approaches are different. Wing Choon Kungfu will benefit and enhance Taijiquan, and vice versa.

                      To avoid the full force of a stronger opponent, both Wing Choon Kungfu and Taijiquan advocate avoiding or deflecting the opponent’s force instead of meeting it head on. How they do so is different.

                      In Wing Choon Kungfu, when a stronger opponent attacks you with a powerful right punch, for example, you move your body slightly to your left side and deflect the attack with your right mirror-hand and simultaneously strike his throat with a finger-thrust. All the movements are generally linear and executed in the fastest manner.

                      In principle you move the target away from the line of attack, cover the attack and simultaneous counter-strike the opponent. If you keep your body still and ward off the attack with a mirror-hand by moving your arm, in a mistaken concept of the middle-line theory, the movement would be unwise.

                      Dealing with a similar attack using Taijiquan is different. Without moving your feet, you shift your body backward, rotate your waist and ward off the attack with Immortal Waves Sleeves, moving your ward-off arm diagonally forward. All the movements are circular.

                      In principle, maintaining your central position, you yield, then deflect the attack using the opponent’s momentum and turn the table back to him. If you do not shift back your body, but maintain your body position and ward off the attack with your arm is unwise.

                      Both the Wing Choon philosophy and the Taijiquan philosophy can be applied in daily life. Suppose you have a small business, and a bigger business selling similar products is attacking you by cutting their prices. If you meet the attack head-on by cutting your prices too, you will be unable to meet the attack.

                      You maintain your prices but move your position by selling to a different group of customers, like those from a higher income group, in a most direst and fastest manner. This is using the Wing Choon approach.

                      Alternatively, you may use the Taijiquan approach. First you yield, accepting that your bigger business rival can afford to lower his prices. Next, you deflect the attack following the attacking momentum, saying that what they, your customers, want is not just the product by also service. Then you turn the table round, saying that your rival being a huge organization may be unable to give them personal service but you can, which will more than off-set the little extra price they pay.

                      Wing Choon Kungfu can benefit and enhance Taijiquan practice in four main dimensions, namely form, skill, application and philosophy. Similarly Wing Choon Kungfu can benefit and enhance other kungfu styles too, and vice versa.
                      Last edited by Andrew; 1 April 2014, 03:44 PM.
                      Daniel Pérez


                      • #26
                        Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 5 - Part 1

                        Question 5

                        Are Sticky Hands the same as Pushing Hands or they have a different approach?



                        Sticking Hands and Pushing Hands are the same and also different.

                        Sticking Hands is the Wing Choon counterpart of the Taijiquan Pushing Hands. The Hoong Ka and Wuzuquan counterparts are Asking Bridge and Kneading Hands.

                        All these four methods of the different kungfu styles are to train sensitivities of the arms so that a practitioner can respond to an opponent’s attack spontaneously and correctly. At an advanced level, the practitioner does not even need to look at the attack.

                        Many course participants at the Special Wing Choon Course in Penang in 2010 told me that they could respond more effective by sensing with their arms than looking at the attack with their eyes. This is scientific. Their arms, which had a consciousness of their own, responded immediately, instead of the eyes sending impulses to the mind which then redirect instructions to the arms to respond.

                        At an even higher level, the response is instantaneous without the arms in contact. Some of you may have seen me responding to an unexpected attack in this way while I paused in a demonstration to explain to a class but the other demonstrator, not realizing that I had stopped, continued to attack me.

                        recall an incident more than 30 years ago in Alor Star when I was teaching a Wing Choon staff set to a student. He stopped at a pattern crouching on the ground with his staff. I moved towards him to correct a fine point. Suddenly he rose and quickly thrust his staff right into me. This was the next pattern immediately after the crouching pattern on the ground.

                        I bet that most people would be hit, walking straight into a thrusting staff. Instinctively I used my right tiger-claw to grip the staff as it was inches away from my face. The student was shocked and apologized profusely. I believe it was impossible to be in time to grip the staff on a physical level as it happened so fast. By the time the eyes see the coming attack

                        There are two explanations for the ability to respond spontaneously and corrrectly. One, the chi field around my arms has extended beyond my physical arms. Even when my arms are not in contact with an opponent’s arms, I can still respond spontaneously and correctly without looking at the attack because my chi filed is still in contact with the opponent’s chi field. This explains why I could react spontaneously while talking in the first example above.

                        The second explanation is that of mind field. I have expanded my mind beyond my physical body. When someone suddenly attacks me, even without my seeing the attack, my mind has picks up the impulses and enables me to respond spontaneously and correctly. This explained my instantaneous response to the staff thrust. It also explains why masters in the past could avoid arrows and flying darts shot at them. At the physical level, it would be too slow. By the time the eyes saw the arrows and darts coming, there would not be enough tome to avoid them. The masters could avoid them because they operated at the mind level. This was one of the many manifestations that the highest kungfu operated at the mind.

                        Both Sticking Hands and Pushing Hands train sensitivities and instantaneous response, but their approach is different. The difference can be seen in their training methods.

                        In Choe Family Wing Choon, Sticking Hands is performed with two practitioners standing facing each other in Goat Stance. There are two basic movements, circulating hands or “huein sau”, and covering hands or “kham sau”.

                        In circulating hands, each practitioner moves his arms in outward circles while in contact with the opponent’s arms. The movement is similar to open Cloud Hands in Taijiquan. In covering hands, each practitioner moves his arms in inward circles while in contact with the opponent’s arms. The movement is similar to close Cloud Hands in Taijiquan.

                        The aim is for each opponent at any time to strike his opponent, who will respond accordingly. To make the training systematic, a particular routine is first followed. In our school the routine covers all the four modes of striking – top, middle, bottom and sides – from both the in-gate and the out-gate modes are trained.

                        When students are familiar with both the attack and the counter movements, control is gradually released so that the students progress gradually from fully controlled following a set routine to totally free without any routine. The practitioners may also adopt any suitable stances and move in any suitable steps.
                        Daniel Pérez


                        • #27
                          Thank you Sifu for answering the question on sensitivity training.


                          • #28
                            Dear all,

                            In the Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 5 - Part 1 above there´s an incomplete paragraph, the correct one is as follows:

                            I bet that most people would be hit, walking straight into a thrusting staff. Instinctively I used my right tiger-claw to grip the staff as it was inches away from my face. The student was shocked and apologized profusely. I believe it was impossible to be in time to grip the staff on a physical level as it happened so fast. By the time the eyes saw the coming attack, it would be too late for a correct response.

                            Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 5 - Part 2

                            (Continued from Part 1)

                            The same procedure is followed using kicks, felling techniques and chin-na. Eventually any one practitioner can use any of the four modes of attack, and the other practitioner will respond spontaneously and accordingly, including responding with continuous counters. It should be noted that even at this stage, it is still not yet free sparring. The practitioners still start with their arms in contact and at the Goat Stance. In free sparring the arms of the two combatants are not in contact.

                            In Wahnam Taijiquan Pushing Hands two practitioners use the Bow-Arrow Stance and their right arms are in contact using the pattern “Immortal Waves Sleeves”. First they practice stationary Pushing Hands, i.e. without move ing their feet, though they may move their body is an attack is at middle range. If an attack is at close range, they do not move their body, they ward off the attack with their arm.

                            The aim is for one practitioner to attack and thte other practitioner to ward off the attack. While the attack movements in Taijiquan and Wing Choon are similar, the defence movements are different. In Wing Choon Kungfu, the deflecting movement is brushing the attack to a side with rotation of the waist. In Taijiquan, the deflecting movement is first to sink back following the attacking momentum, then deflect it and turn the movement back to the attacker. Roughly the Wing Choon circular movement is vertical, whereas the Taijiquan oval movement is horizontal.

                            From my observation, those who practice popular styles of Wing Choon do not deflect an attack the way we do in Choe Family Wing Choon. They seldom rotate their waist but maintain their frontal position and ward off the attack from their center-line. In Choe Family Wing Choon, our defence issues from our waist, sometimes without even moving our hands. In popular styles of Wing Choon, their defence issues from their shoulders, often with much arm movement. Because we employ leverage of our waist, we need less force to deflect an opponent’s attack.

                            Our Wahnam Taijiquan Pushing Hands is also different from the Pushing Hands of other schools. When we practice stationary Pushing Hands, we do not move our body when an attack is short range. If an attack is middle range, we use shen-fa, or body-movement, to sink back to avoid the full force of the attack, but without moving our feet. In stationary Pushing Hands of other styles, practitioners of other Taijiquan schools move their body almost all the time. They don’t seem to differentiate between short range attack and middle range attsack.

                            In mobile Pushing Hands when an attack is long range, we move our feet. We change our attack from a finger-thrust to pushing with both arms, i.e. from “White Snake Shoots Venom” to “Open Window to Look at Moon”. Indeed, we move our feet because the attack is long range. If the attack is short range we just move our arms, and if the attack is middle range, we shift our body, irrespective of whether the attack is a finger-thrust, a palm push or any other techniques.

                            In other words, we use the best footwork according to the range of attack. If an attack is short range, it is not necessary to move the body or the feet. If the attack is middle range, it is inadequate to avoid the full force of the attack by just using the arm, so shifting the body back is an excellent move. Moving the feet back would miss the opportunity of counter-strike, for which Taijiquan is well known. If an attack is long range, like when an opponent is moving into you, just using your arms or sinking back your body is inadequate, so you have to move one step back. Because he is moving forward, even when you move back, you will still be close enough to counter-strike him, while being far away to be safe.

                            When Wahnam Taijiquan students are familiar with these footwork movements, they can progress to a more advanced level of remaining in the centre. When an opponent moves forward with a long range attack, they may, for example, employ the tactic of interception. They sink back their body without moving their feet to intercept an opponent’s attack when it is at middle range before it has progressed to long range, deflect it and counter-strike. This is a very effective counter.

                            These lessons on footwork and range of attack are not systematically taught in our Wing Choon syllabus. Thus students who wish to specialized in Wing Choon Kungfu, can benefit much from breadth and depth if they attend some Taijiquan courses. These principles and practice, of course, are applicable in daily life.

                            A student, who has internalized his Wing Choon training, may aggressively fight back or move away when someone attacks him at his work place.

                            The following are some possible scenarios.

                            Attacker: “Why do you talk to that customer? It is not your job.”

                            Wing Choon student: “You mind your own business” or finding the attack overwhelming, he moves away.

                            Wing Choon student with Taijiquan advantage: “It’s not my job but I work in the same company. I try my best to help the customer. But you did nothing.”
                            Last edited by Daniel; 4 April 2014, 11:05 AM.
                            Daniel Pérez


                            • #29
                              Questions on Wing Choon Kungfu Question 6 - Part 1

                              Question 6

                              I was recently watching a Kungfu film that focused on Wing Choon, and one of the characters made an interesting comment regarding Sticky Hands practice. The teacher said to the student, "Do not follow your opponents movements. Follow his shadow." The teacher was telling the student to follow the opponent's intention, rather than his movements. Would you agree with this instruction for Sticky Hands? Or is this a fictional approach that was included in the movie?

                              I'm also curious to know if "shadow" is typically/traditionally used to mean intention - as in No Shadow Kick. Would this be a kick that is executed without any obvious intention to kick, or telegraphing the movement, thus making it difficult to block?



                              I would not agree with the instruction mentioned in the movie. There is some truth in the instruction at an advanced level but its meaning is not like what you mentioned.

                              The main aim of Sticking Hands is to train sensitivity of the arms so as to be able to deflect an opponent’s attack with the arms without having to look at the attack. The core of the training is with the attacker’s movements.

                              In kungfu context, “shadow” does not typically or traditionally mean intention. It means the withdrawing movement of an opponent, usually but not necessarily after an attack.

                              If an opponent attacks the practitioner’s head, regardless of whether the opponent’s intention is to attack the head and before he withdraws his attack, the practitioner must deflect the attack during Sticking Hands practice. He may dodge the attack instead of deflecting it, but still he covers the attack with his hand in case the opponent extends or changes his attack.

                              The attack may be a feint move. When the practitioner in his Sticking Hands training attempts to deflect the attack to his head, the opponent changes it to an attack to his body using a reverse ginger-fist, also called a leopard-fist (which is commonly used in Choe Family Wing Choon, but not in the popular Wing Choon styles practiced today). In his initial training the practitioner may be tricked. In this case, the opponent must not forget to guard his face with his other hand.

                              But eventually, as his deflecting hand is in contact with the opponent’s attack, the practitioner can sense the changing movement of the opponent and follows it, thus also deflecting the real attack after the feint one.

                              The arms of the two practitioners in Sticking Hands training are usually in contact. But there may be occasions when they are not. For example, an attacker may use the tactic of “one against two” to close the opponent’s two hands with his one hand, then execute a thrust kick. The responder may counter with a hand sweep.

                              Then, the attack makes a feint move to attack the opponent’s head. The opponent raises his hand to deflect the attack. But before the arms come into contact, the attacker changes his momentum to attack the opponent’s body with a reversed ginger-fist. Initially, the opponent may be hit. But gradually, if the training is systematic, the opponent can respond spontaneously even when their arms are not in contact.
                              Daniel Pérez


                              • #30
                                Thank you from the heart :-)

                                Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family,

                                I want to thank Sifu one more time for being so generous with me and providing these incredible answers. I feel indeed very lucky to have Sifu as my Sifu. In the past, I was trying to learn martial arts and I must say that I wasn't very successful.

                                I would like to share my short experience with Wing Chung Kung Fu in the past as I think it could be very beneficial for the future participants in this course.

                                Back in the year 2005-2006 I was living in Mallorca, Spain. For those not very familiar with Spanish geography, I would like to mention that Mallorca is an Island placed in the Mediterranean sea. I am very sure that by mentioning that it is very close to Ibiza many people will know where the island is. :-)

                                Mallorca is a beautiful island and it is a paradise. Beautiful sunsets, wonderful beaches, nice food and a relaxed life style.

                                I have always wanted to learn how to fight. I felt since I was a child that the warrior that it is inside of me needed to be polished so I could bring the best out of me. I knew that, unless I trained a genuine martial art, I would never be able to find my maximum potential.

                                After watching many Kung Fu movies, Wing Chung became one of my favourite styles. It was incredibly fast and looked really effective. Therefore, I decided to search for some school in Mallorca. I found a very popular school there and I decided to give it a try.

                                I remember entering the gym and asking for the instructor. The instructor came and I made him some questions. When he was explaining me he was also making some demonstrations and I remember that in the last demonstration he simulated punching me and stopped just inches away from my chest and face. That really impressed me but also scared me a little bit because I felt that he was a very aggressive person.

                                My mental clarity by then was not the mental clarity that I pursue now. As a westerner, I used to train under the "No pain no gain principle" (though I never took it too seriously :-)). That is why I gave it a chance. I assumed that some pain was necessary for progressing in martial arts fighting.

                                I remember that in my first day of class I was doing almost the same kind of training than the most seniors. I remember one training that was quite dangerous. I had to jump a bar of 1 meter high and then falling and rolling on the floor. I had never learned how to do that as nobody had taught me how to do it. I hurt my shoulder in one of the falls.

                                Other training that we had was as follows. We had to pull the same way a horse pull a car. Someone from behind was rolling a T-shirt on our neck an grabbing the extremes and pulling in the opposite direction. The purpose of this exercise was to strengthen the neck. I remember that I could hardly breath as that T-shirt was pressuring my throat.

                                At the end of the class we did some ground fighting. I remember that in the very first day the instructor took me out and told me to do ground fighting with one of the most veterans. I did some wrestling in High School (about 4 months) when I lived in the United States. That probably saved me from my classmate hurting me.

                                I remember my classmate becoming incredibly aggressive because he was unable to win. He was applying more and more force and aggression and the instructor wasn't stoping him. I was thinking: "What is this guy doing? Why is he getting so aggressive? We are just training and I just started!" As I didn't know what to do, I decided to give up and to let him making a lock on me so he could win. I later thought this was the smartest thing I could do in order to avoid getting hurt.

                                The instructor was surprised because I was very good in ground fighting but I was very upset because my classmate wouldn't have doubt of hurting me just for the shake of winning. That is not training. That is a real fight. In fact, by asking my classmates I discovered that it was very frequent that someone got hurt almost every week.

                                I think that I assisted just to 2 or 3 classes. In what it would be my last class, the training was so intense that I almost fainted at the end. I had to take a couple of energy drinks so my sugar levels and salts went back to normal. How far away from the feeling after a training in Shaolin Wahnam where I have more energy at the end of the class than at the start!

                                I must have divine help as just after that class I had an Herpes in my chest called Zoster. From all the existing Herpes this is the most serious one and in advanced ages it can kill a man as it goes around the lungs and strangles them as an Anaconda could do. I remember the doctor telling me that I would have it for life and that every time that I would have the defences low it could show up.

                                As Herpes are contagious I decided not to go to class in the benefit of my classmates. I stayed away for 3-4 weeks. After that time I never came back as I had time to realise that this kind of training was not for me. I didn't want to end up with a bleeding nose or a black eye.

                                I just realised last week that this Herpes might have been some divine help stopping me from going there. Otherwise I would have been going again due to my lack of mental clarity. I must also say that this Herpes never showed up again.

                                It was very frustrating living with the fear that this Herpes could show up anytime when I grew older and having the power to kill me. Maybe doctor was not very aware of the fear that they can generate in patients and how much they can influence in a person's health. That is why it has been always so inspiring to hear from Sifu that any illness can be cured.

                                We are truly very lucky to have Sifu teaching us. My Wing Chung experience is probably very common in the quest of finding and learning a genuine martial art. By having experienced these kind of aggressive trainings I learned to treasure Sifu's trainings. I honestly believe that the Wing Chung taught in this Mallorca school was not Wing Chung Kung Fu and I know that what Sifu teaches is genuine Wing Chun Kung Fu. So, anyone having the chance to learn from Sifu should not miss this golden opportunity.

                                Thanks Daniel Sifu one more time for starting this beautiful thread. :-)

                                With Love, Care and Shaolin Salute,