Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

18 Lohan hands : 10 Questions to Grandmaster Wong

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 18 Lohan hands : 10 Questions to Grandmaster Wong

    Dear all,

    In order to prepare for the upcoming courses, Sifu offers to answer 10 Questions on the 18 Lohanhands.

    Best regards,

    Roland
    "From formless to form, from form to formless"

    26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
    Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

    Website: www.enerqi.ch

  • #2
    Dear Roland Siheng,

    Thank you for starting the thread!


    Dear Sifu,

    Thank you for giving us the chance to ask questions again. The 10 questions series are invaluable and I am looking forward to the answers to our precious set of exercises.

    It is said that Bodhidharma, from the 500 Arahants/Lohans, he chose to honor 18 of them that were most appreciated by the Chinese to overcome cultural differences when spreading Buddhism to China. Also most other sets in Chi Kung and Kung Fu base on the “magic number” of 18 or multiples of it due to Bodhidharma’s choice.

    Can you please tell us more about these 18 Lohans?

    Are there any records how the Shaolin monks practiced the 18 Lohan Hands in the past?
    (i.e. for how long; how many repetitions; all exercises at once or separately; did they develop chi flow similar to ours; etc.)

    Thank you very much in advance!

    Best wishes,
    o\

    Leo
    Sifu Leonard Lackinger

    Wahnam Wien Logo

    Shaolin Wahnam Wien
    Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung
    Southern Shaolin Kung Fu
    Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan

    Shaolin Wahnam Wien on facebook
    Shaolin Wahnam Wien on YouTube

    Comment


    • #3
      Amazing :-)

      Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family,

      Sifu, thanks so much for your tremendous dedication. I really really value your teachings. :-)

      Roland Sifu, thanks so much for starting what it is going to be another amazing thread recorded for posterity. :-)

      My question:

      Sifu, would you kindly share with us which one is, from the 18 Lohand Hands, your favorite one? why? Did you have any "Aha" Experiences while in your own practice and/or teaching them? If so, would you kindly share the one/s that you might consider more relevant?

      Many thanks in advance. I am really looking forward to this thread.

      With Love, Respect and Shaolin Salute,

      Santiago

      Comment


      • #4
        Dear Sigung,

        Are there any circumstances or scenarios when a student's interests would be best served by practising the 18 Lohan Hands exclusively over a prolonged period of time (say 10-15 years) and not integrating other styles (e.g. Sinew Metamorphosis, 18 Lohan Arts etc) into his or her practice?

        Thank you Sigung.

        Thank you Sisook Roland.

        All the best,

        Kevin

        Comment


        • #5
          What a treat - another priceless opportunity!

          Thank you Sigung for your kindness and thank you Roland Sipak for the thread.

          Dear Sigung,

          On your website www.shaolin.org/chikung/lohan.html#p1 you explain that "the Shaolin Eighteen Lohan Hands are fundamental chi kung exercises" and that "at the Shaolin Monastery, these Eighteen Lohan Hands evolved into a kungfu set called “Eighteen Lohan Fist”, which forms the prototype of Shaolin Kungfu today."

          Please can you share your views about whether you believe there was always an intention to evolve the set into a martial art at a later date? Why or why not?

          Please can you discuss the extent to which the fundamental nature of the chi kung set also provides benefits and capabilities relevant to the martial art?

          Thanks again for taking these questions. The "10 Q&A" series are awesome.

          With love, respect and gratitude,

          Matt
          Last edited by Matthew; 15 May 2013, 09:03 PM. Reason: Typo in case
          With love and Shaolin salute /o

          "Your purpose in life is to find your purpose & give your whole heart and soul to it." - Buddha

          Gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā.

          Comment


          • #6
            Dear Sifu,

            Which exercises from the 18 Lohanhands did you personally learn from Sigung Ho Fatt Nam and what do you think was the reason why Sigung exclusively chose them to teach it to you?

            At the recent Chi Kung course in Finale Ligure I was again amazed by the profundity of the exercice Lifting Sky. To the beginners you told that they should perform the exercise as best as they can not paying too much attention to the details. To the advances practitioners you would mention that they should gently focus on the finer points and performing it picture perfect. Both Ronny and I were simply amazed by the results of this training session. It remided us of the depth of Lifting Sky. It reminded us of the constantly ongoing development we are able to experience.

            What is the reason that an advanged practitioner after having reached a certain development of skills should focus back again to the picture perfect form?

            Thank you in advance for answering our questions Sifu!

            Best regards,

            Roland
            "From formless to form, from form to formless"

            26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
            Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

            Website: www.enerqi.ch

            Comment


            • #7
              Dear Sifu,

              How extraordinary(or rare) is it to meet, learn and benefit from a Master who can genuinely transmit a skill that brings all the benefits(like we receive) in the 18 Lohan Hands?

              Also, how extraordinary is it to meet, learn and benefit from a great living Master like Bodhidharma?

              Finally, how extraordinary is it to meet, learn and benefit from such a great living teacher as the Buddha himself?
              少林華南台灣 Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan

              Facebook

              "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

              -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

              Comment


              • #8
                There are a few chances to benefit tremendously still
                "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                Website: www.enerqi.ch

                Comment


                • #9
                  Deutschsprachige | German Speakers

                  For German speakers who do not feel confident formulating their question in English, there is a German thread now, where they can post them:

                  Für alle deutschsprachigen, die eine Frage stellen möchten, gibt es die Möglichkeit diese hier auf Deutsch hier zu posten:

                  http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11302
                  Enjoy some Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan & Qi Gong!

                  Evening Classes in Zürich
                  Weekend Classes in other Swiss locations


                  Website: www.taichichuan-wahnam.ch
                  Facebook: www.facebook.com/Taichichuan.Wahnam.ch

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dear Sigung,

                    I am so amazed how much value our foundational techniques have.
                    When you taught us the Skill of Bone Marrow Cleansing, why did you choose the techniques from the 18 Lohan Hands (and not techniques from our 18 Lohan Arts, Sinew Metamorphosis or One Finger Shooting Zen) ?


                    Thank you very much for your response Sigung!

                    Kindest regards,
                    Anton
                    Engage and maintain joyful practice!

                    May all of you get the best benefits from what you do.

                    Anton Schmick
                    Shaolin Wahnam Germany Nord

                    shaolinwahnamchina.com
                    http://chikunghamburg.wordpress.com
                    http://shaolinwahnam-nord.de
                    http://kungfu-luebeck.de

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dear Sitaigung,

                      in the past, you recommended specific exercises to overcome specific health problems. Nowadays, with the tremendous improvement in your teaching methology, you kindly explained to us that it is the chi flow induced by and following the exercise which leads to the benefits of Chi Kung.

                      At our current level of attainment, how important is exercise selection to overcome specific health problems?

                      For example, if a new student has a problem in his lower back and practises only Lifting The Sky or only Carrying the Moon, would there be a difference in his recovery if all other factors were equal?

                      Thank you very much in advance for your reply and thank you to Sisookgung Roland for making this Q&A possible!

                      With a big smile from the heart,
                      Steffen
                      May all beings be happy

                      Thank you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        18 Lohan Hands Answer 1-Part 1

                        18 Lohan Hands-Answer 1 Part 1

                        Question 1

                        It is said that from the 500 Arahants or Lohans, Bodhidharma chose to honor 18 of them that were most appreciated by the Chinese to overcome cultural differences when spreading Buddhism to China. Also most Chi Kung and Kung Fu sets are based on the “magic number” of 18 or multiples of it due to Bodhidharma’s choice.

                        Can you please tell us more about these 18 Lohans?

                        Are there any records how the Shaolin monks practiced the 18 Lohan Hands in the past? (i.e. for how long; how many repetitions; all exercises at once or separately; did they develop chi flow similar to ours; etc.)

                        Sifu Leonard


                        Answer

                        An Arahant, or Lohan in Chinese, is one who has attained Enlightenment. The term “Arahant” is often used in Hinayana Buddhism. In Mahayana Buddhism, one who has attained Enlightenment is called a Buddha. The term “Lohan” is often used in Chinese Buddhism to denote a disciple who learned directly from the Buddha.

                        I am not sure whether it was Bodhidharma who introduced the 18 Lohans into China, but the 18 Lohans are certainly very popular in Chinese Buddhism, and they are frequently worshipped in Chinese Buddhist temples.

                        I don’t think these 18 Lohans were selected to differentiate between Indian and Chinese culture. In fact both their names and the appearance they are normally depicted are Indian. Their Sanskrit names are transliterated into Chinese characters.

                        For example, the first Lohan is Pindola Bharadvaja, and is called Pin-tu-lo-Po-lo-to-she in Chinese. It is worthy of note that “Pin-tu-lo-Po-lo-to-she” is the Chinese pronunciation in classical times. The written Chinese characters are the same, but because the sounds of the characters have changed over time, the modern pronunciation of the same words in Mandarin is Bīndùluó Báluóduòshé.

                        “Pin-tu-lo-Po-lo-to-she” is not a name easy for typical Chinese to remember. Hence the Lohans are often addressed by their attributes. Pin-tu-lo-Po-lo-to-she, or Pindola Bharadvaja in Sanskrit, is usually depicted as riding a dear. Hence, he is often addressed as Dear-Riding Lohan, or Qílù Luóhàn in Modern Mandarin pronunciation.

                        The 18 Lohans are listed below with their names in Sanskrit, their Chinese transliterations as pronounced in classical times, their attributes, their modern pronunciation in Mandarin, and a brief description.

                        The order of the listing is not dependent on their seniority or the level of their spiritual development, but on the order of their appearance before a famous artist. In 891 CE the 18 Lohans appeared before Guan Xiu who painted them. The emperor made copies of the images and distributed them over China.

                        The 6th Lohan, Po-t’e-lo or Bhadra, is sometimes confused with Bodhdharma, our First Patriarch. Bodhidharma, who lived more than a thousand years after the Buddha, could not be a Lohan, i.e. his direct disciple. Bodhidharma is regarded as a Bodhisattva, rather than a Lohan.

                        1. Pindola Bharadvaja - Pin-tu-lo-Po-lo-to-she,. Deer-Riding Lohan - Qílù Luóhàn
                        Sitting dignified on a dear, he had long eye-brows, was noted for psychic powers, and his voice was like the roar of a lion.

                        2. Kanaka Vatsa - Ka-no-ka-Fa-tso, Joyful Lohan - Xǐqìng Luóhàn
                        He was very skillful in public speaking and debates. He said that happiness was experienced through the five senses but joy was experienced from within. He sometimes banged cymbals in his joy.

                        3. Karaka Bharadvaja - Ka-no-ka-Po-li-tou-she, Raised Bow Lohan - Jǔbō Luóhàn
                        A mendicant monk who asked for alms by raising his bowl, he often raised one leg in the air representing royal ease. He symbolized receiving gifts gracefully.

                        4. Subhinda - Su-p’in-t’e,. Lift Pagoda Lohan - Tuōda Luóhàn
                        He was the last disciple of the Buddha. He held a pagoda in his hand as a remembrance for the Buddha. The pagoda was then introduced into China.

                        5. Nakula - No-ku-lo,. Meditating Lohand - Jìngzuò Luóhàn
                        He was a great warrior with tremendous strength who later became a monk. He attained Enlightenment through meditation.

                        6. Bhadra - Po-t’e-lo,. Oversea Lohan - Guojiāng Luóhàn
                        His name meant virtuous and sagacious. He spread the Dharma across the seas to the East Indies and Java.
                        Last edited by Luo Lang; 20 May 2013, 11:35 AM.
                        "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                        26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                        Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                        Website: www.enerqi.ch

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          18 Lohan Hands-Answer 1 Part 2

                          18 Lohan Hands-Answer 1 Part 2

                          7. Kalika - Ka-li-ka, Elephant-Riding Lohan - Qíxiàng Luóhàn
                          He was an elephant tamer. The elephant symbolizes strength, endurance and perseverance. Kalika represents patience, concentration and diligence.

                          8. Vajraputra - Fa-she-lo-fuh-to-lo,. Laughing Lion Lohan - Xiàoshī Luóhàn
                          He advocated that both practice and understanding were necessary to attain wisdom. He was a former lion hunter before becoming a monk. A lion club joined him, grateful that he gave up his former profession.

                          9. Gobaka - Shu-po-ka, Open Heart Lohan - Kāixīn Luóhàn
                          Open the heart and see the Buddha. Gobaka was a crown prince. His younger brother started a rebellion but Gobaka assuring his brother that he would denounce the kingdom to become a monk, took of his garment and exposed a Buddha image on his heart.

                          10. Maha Panthaka – Mo-ha Pan-t’o-ka, Lifting Hands -Tànshǒu Luóhàn
                          He was a prince but became a monk. After meditation he would raise his hands like Lifting the Sky.

                          11. Rahula - Lo-hu-lo,. Deep Concentration Lohan - Chénsi Luóhàn
                          He was the Buddha’s son before the Buddha left the palace. Later he sought his father for his inheritance. His boyish look reflected his youth compared to the other Lohans.

                          12. Nagasena - Na-ka-si-na,. Ear Cleansing Loahn - Wāěr Luóhàn
                          Nagasena was usually depicted cleansing his ears which symbolized always hearing everything correctly. He had great supernatural powers and was an eloquent speaker and debater. He answered King Milinda’s famous questions.

                          13. Angida - Yin-kie-t’e, Cloth Bag Lohan – Budai Luohan
                          Angida was a snake-catcher preventing them from harming people. He took off their fangs, put them into his bag and released them in the mountains, which symbolized exchanging bad for good.

                          14. Vanavasa - Fa-na-p’o-ssu, Banana Tree Lohan - Bājiāo Luóhàn
                          He was born during a heavy rainstorm, thus his name which meant rain. He liked to meditate under a banana tree.

                          15. Ajita - A-shih-to, Long Eyebrow Lohan – Changmei Luohan
                          He was born with two long eyebrows. In his previous life he was a monk who failed to attain Enlightenment even cultivating to old age with only two eyebrows left. He attained Enlightenment in this life.

                          16. Chota-Panthaka - Chu-t’a -Pan-t’o-ka, Door Watching Lohan – Kanmen Luohan
                          He was so slow-witted that he could not remember a single line of the Buddha’s teaching. The Buddha taught him to sweep the floor, and each time he swept he recited the word “Sweep”. In this way he focused his mind and attained Enlightenment.

                          17. Nantimitolo - Nam-ti-mi-to-lo, Subduing Dragon Lohan – Xianglong Luohan
                          People stole Buddhist sutras. The Dragon King flooded the area and restored the sutras in his palace. Nantimitolo, which means Happy Friend, subdued the dragon guard and restored the sutras to the world.

                          18. Pindola - Pin-tu-lo, Taming Tiger Lohan – Fuhu Luohan
                          Pindola was a Brahmin and a general who later became a monk. He heard a tiger howling every day. He gathered vegetarian food from the temple and fed the tiger.

                          Although the 18 Lohan Hands are in honour of the 18 Lohans, it does not mean that each hand or technique is derived from each of the 18 Lohans. However, the first pattern of the 18 Lohan Hands, Lifting the Sky, was likely to derive from Maha Panthaka, or Mo-ha Pan-t’o-ka in Chinese, who frequently lifted his hands after completing his meditation.

                          Yes, many Shaolin chi kung and kungfu sets are based on the number 18 in honour of the 18 Lohans. In our school, for example, we have the 18 Lohan Hands, 18-Lohan Art, 18 Shaolin chi Kung Techniques, and 18 Jewels.

                          In Shaolin Kungfu, many sets are based on 18 or multiples of it. For example, Four Gates, Tiger-Crane, Dragon-Tiger, and Lohan Asks the Way have 36 patterns. Flower Set, Iron Wire and Dragon Strength have 72 patterns. Triple Stretch and Essence of Shaolin have 108 patterns.
                          "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                          26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                          Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                          Website: www.enerqi.ch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            18 Lohan Hands-Answer 1 Part 3

                            18 Lohan Hands-Answer 1 Part 3:

                            (Continued from Part 2)

                            Although there were pictures showing how the 18 Lohan Hands were practiced by the Shaolin monks in the past, there were no records how these 18 Lohan Hands were practiced. Because of its long history, there are a few different versions of the 18 Lohan Hands. In some versions, the 18 Lohan Hands were practiced like exercises in Sinew Metamorphosis. In some versions they were practiced will sitting in a lotus position.

                            There was no definite record of for how long and for how many repetitions the 18 Lohan Hands were performed. This was probably because the time taken and the number of repetitions depended on various factors like the objectives of the training sessions and the developmental stages of the monks.

                            Nevertheless, from various records I have the impression that the Shaolin monks in the past practiced all the 18 Lohan Hands as a set instead of individual patterns as we usually do in our school. I also believe that the monks took a longer time to practice the 18 Lohan Hands, perhaps an hour per session, not just 15 minutes a session as recommended in our school.

                            As far as I can gather from classical records as well as from genuine Shaolin lineages practicing the 18 Lohan Hands, the Shaolin monks in the past as well as modern practitioners of genuine lineages did not develop chi flow similar to ours. They merely performed the patterns, and any chi flow, which was slight compared to us, was during the performance of the patterns. Sometimes they might sway for a few seconds, poetically known as Flowing Breeze Swaying Willows, after performing the whole set of 18 Lohan Hands. This was also how I learned and practiced the 18 Lohan Hands from my sifu, Sifu Ho Fatt Nam.

                            The vigorous chi flow movements commonly seen in our school was developed in my long years of teaching. When I first taught chi kung to the public in the 1970s, I taught the 18 Lohan Hands in a package course of 6 months. Many kungfu and chi kung masters laughed at me, commenting how I could teach chi kung in six months. In their concept, chi kung training took years. Some were angry at me for teaching non-Chinese.

                            Initially I taught the 18 Lohan Hands the way I learned from my sifu, Sifu Ho Fatt Nam, which was performing the patterns with focus on perfect form and correct breathing, and which was also the way chi kung was taught by genuine Shaolin masters. It took my early students about 4 to 6 months to have some visible chi flow movements. This was quite remarkable as I myself took more than a year to have similar results, and I was regarded as an exemplary student.

                            By the 1980s, chi flow movements had become more vigorous, but still they were nothing compared to what our students now experience. The increase of chi flow movements in both frequency and intensity was due much to my practice and study of a different genre of chi kung called Five-Animal Play, later more commonly known as Self-Manifested Chi Movement. By then the six-month course of 18 Lohan Hands had been reduced to three months, and when I traveled to teach in Australia the course was further reduced to 10 days, and then to 3 days.

                            When I first taught in Europe in the 1990s, I taught selection from the 18 Lohan Hands in 8 hours. Students could attain vigorous chi flow by the end of the course. Our teaching methodology continued to improve amazingly, and now we can achieve better results in just 4 hours.

                            It may sound presumptuous but I honestly believe that we may now be more cost-effective in the training of 18 Lohan Hands than even the Shaolin monks themselves in the past. Certainly a typical Shaolin Wahnam student now can practice the 18 Lohan Hands more effectively than I did even when I was known as an exemplary student. At that time I just practiced the 18 Lohan Hands, and over time, like a year or two, experienced some chi flow. I believe this also applied to what Shaolin monks in the past did. I did not differentiate between techniques and skills.

                            But now our Shaolin Wahnam students can use a same technique from the 18 Lohan Hands to operate different skills. Not only they can generate an energy flow, but also develop internal force, massage internal organs, cleanse their nerves and even expand into the Cosmos – in just one day! It is simply mind-blowing.

                            <End>
                            "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                            26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                            Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                            Website: www.enerqi.ch

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wonderful! Thank you to Leo for the mindful questions.
                              "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                              26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                              Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                              Website: www.enerqi.ch

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X