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Choy-Li-Fatt and Kungfu Against Other Styles: 20 Questions for Grandmaster

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  • Choy-Li-Fatt and Kungfu Against Other Styles: 20 Questions for Grandmaster

    Dear family and visitors,


    It's on!


    Now it's time to expand our "10 questions to the Grandmaster" -series to other courses of the 2012 Shaolin Winter Camp as well – namely, the "Choy-Li-Fatt" -course and the "Kungfu Against Other Styles" -course.


    Since these two kungfu -courses are designed to be excellent complements to each other, we'll accept all the questions on both topics here on this very thread!

    That's right: Grandmaster Wong will pick 10 best questions for each topics, making it a total of 20 answered questions.



    As you might have noticed, on the "Legacy of Bodhidharma" -thread Grandmaster has favored the fast ones. Therefore, you should ask while you still can; the answers may be coming quicker than you think!


    So to paraphrase, please submit your questions on the following topics:

    Choy-Li-Fatt (Choy Lee Fut)
    - It's history, application, training, legends, famous practitioners, and dimensions

    Kungfu Against Other Styles
    - Combat application of genuine kungfu against other martial arts, and traditional kungfu in martial sports environments. History, strenghts, weaknesses, famous fighters etc.



    May I remind you that this is not only for Shaolin Wahnam students and instructors; all questions asked sincerely and respectfully are most welcome!


    Best wishes,
    Markus Kahila
    Shaolin Nordic Finland

    www.shaolin-nordic.com


  • #2
    Dear Sifu,

    It seems that waist rotation is an important part of Choy Li Fatt mechanics. Could a Choy Li Fatt specialist use the form of Choy Li Fatt to develop internal force, as Taijiquan practicioners do, without relying on a separate set of force training techniques as in other styles?
    少林華南台灣 Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan

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    "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

    -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

    Comment


    • #3
      Dear Sifu,

      My question is regarding the development of Shaolin kungfu.

      In the formative years of kungfu at the Shaolin temple, were any patterns learned from visiting martial artists, or did Shaolin kungfu develop completely independently from other martial arts?

      Thank you.
      Charles David Chalmers
      Brunei Darussalam

      Comment


      • #4
        Dear Sifu,

        Since Choy Li Fatt was developed with combat in mind, and using external methods as a focus, are there any safeguards in place to prevent practicioners from becoming overly violent and aggressive (as seen in many Karate practicioners)?

        -Matt

        Comment


        • #5
          Dear Sifu,

          Our Shaolin combat training, while being very effective for combat, also trains us to calmly and quickly make the appropriate decision. This has many applications outside of combat (negotiation, avoiding negative situations, etc). Since Choy Li Fatt was developed to be used for fighting en mass, could the mind-level benefits have even more application for today's modern, multi-tasking culture with stimulus coming from all directions at all times?

          -Matt

          Comment


          • #6
            Dear Sifu

            1) As an art that specialises in mass combat and multiple attackers, it is said that Choy Li Fatt is relatively weaker in high-level individual fighting. Generally, is it correct to say that one who can handle multiple armed assailants would have no difficulty in dealing with even a skilled individual opponent?

            2) Choy Li Fatt has many wide, swinging movements with straightened arms. Can these characteristic movements become technical disadvantages in combat since swinging movements take longer to arrive, telegraph the strike and may leave the exponent vulnerable to certain qinna attack?

            3) What are the most crucial elements that distinguish Chinese kungfu from all other fighting arts?
            百德以孝为先
            Persevere in correct practice

            Comment


            • #7
              Dear Sifu,

              How has Choy Li Fatt evolved since its conception? Does it have techniques, methdos or tactics that are truly unique or is it more a specialization within southern Shaolin Kungfu?

              Comment


              • #8
                Dear Sifu,

                Is Choy Li Fatt related to Great Northern styles like Da Lohan, Tan Tui or First Emperors Long Fist?

                Northern Shaolin stylist often used the 18 Lohanarts for Internal force training, why is it that Choy Li Fatt often uses weights and external methods to develop internal force?
                "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                Website: www.enerqi.ch

                Comment


                • #9
                  Answer to Question 1

                  Dear all,


                  Good questions!


                  As before, Grandmaster Wong is following this thread with great interest, and he's already started contributing answers.

                  So, it would seem speed is of the essence here – keep the questions coming!






                  Choy-Li-Fatt combat application




                  Question 1:

                  It seems that waist rotation is an important part of Choy Li Fatt mechanics. Could a Choy Li Fatt specialist use the form of Choy Li Fatt to develop internal force, as Taijiquan practicioners do, without relying on a separate set of force training techniques as in other styles?
                  - Sifu Mark Blohm



                  Answer to Question 1:


                  "
                  Yes, waist rotation is very important in Choy-Li-Fatt, without which it would not be fast and agile which is especially necessary in mass fighting.

                  However, Choy-Li-Fatt practitioners do not use their form, including waist rotation, to develop internal force. The key to internal force training is chi, usually induced by methodical breathing, as expressed in the kungfu saying “noi lin yit hou hei” (Cantonese), which means “internal cultivation is based on breathing”. Choy-Li-Fatt practitioners normally do not pay much attention to this chi aspect.

                  Hence, a separate set of internal force training methods is needed.  Internal force training in Choy-Li-Fatt is the prerogative of masters; students seldom have this opportunity.  What is commonly used is a set of triple-stretch movements, similar to those in our Triple-Stretch Set and Flower Set.  However, most Choy-Li-Fatt practitioners merely perform the external form, missing the inner essence.

                  Those who still have access to classical methods use the Eighteen-Lohan Art.  This is rare today.  I have found only one Choy-Li-Fatt master in south China teaching this method.  The exercises in his system, however, are different from those of our Eighteen-Lohan Art.

                  Most Choy-Li-Fatt practitioners use external methods for force training, like hitting sandbags and wooden men, and using traditional stone-locks or modern dumb-bells.   Over many years of training, the external force of some Choy-Li-Fatt masters has become internal.

                  In our Choy-Li-Fatt course at the 2012 Winter Camp, we shall have a comprehensive introduction to Choy-Li-Fatt force training, including using triple-stretch, selected exercises from the Eighteen-Lohan Art and modern dumb-bells.
                  "
                  - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit



                  Best wishes,
                  Markus Kahila
                  Shaolin Nordic Finland

                  www.shaolin-nordic.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sifu View Post
                    Those who still have access to classical methods use the Eighteen-Lohan Art.  This is rare today.  I have found only one Choy-Li-Fatt master in south China teaching this method.  The exercises in his system, however, are different from those of our Eighteen-Lohan Art.

                    ...In our Choy-Li-Fatt course at the 2012 Winter Camp, we shall have a comprehensive introduction to Choy-Li-Fatt force training, including using triple-stretch, selected exercises from the Eighteen-Lohan Art and modern dumb-bells.

                    Dear Sifu,
                    Would the way a Choy-Li-Fatt exponent use Eighteen Lohan Art be different from how a Mantis practitioner or Eight Immortals practitioner train Eighteen Lohan Art? If so, how?

                    Thank you,
                    Chia-Hua

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dear Sifu

                      How does a Choy Li Fatt master's external force become internal?
                      Is it therefore possible for modern external martial artists (i.e Boxers, kickboxers) to develop internal force at some stage?

                      Thank you
                      Ish

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dear Sifu,

                        Often Choy-Lee-Futt may be regarded as a style which is more dominantly trained by practitioners of Christian religion, yet many Kung Fu practitioners may regard rightly or wrongly Choy-Lee-Futt as a Christian style.

                        Could you please give us some insights of your point of view on that?
                        "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                        26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                        Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                        Website: www.enerqi.ch

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Answer to Choy-Li-Fatt -question 2

                          Dear family and visitors,


                          Bear in mind: There is an ongoing "10 questions for the Grandmaster" -series going on with the "Kungfu Against Other Styles" -course as well!

                          You should use this opportunity and ask the Grandmaster anything related to the subject.



                          .


                          Here is the second answer to the Choy-Li-Fatt -series. It's from yours truly, that I managed to sneak in while planning the course. The Grandmaster's answer is an important one: It details how the at upcoming course Choy-Li-Fatt will be returned to its Shaolin roots!







                          The sweeping punch of Choy-Li-Fatt


                          Question 2:

                          Sifu, I remember you mentioning at the last Winter Camp, that at the Choy-Li-Fatt course you plan to include internal force training with dumbbells.  Could you please elaborate?
                          - Sifu Markus Kahila



                          Answer to Question 2:


                          "
                          Yes, the Choy-Li-Fatt course at the 2012 Winter Camp in Norway will be very special.  Course participants will learn what many Choy-Li-Fatt practitioners hope to learn but very few have the chance to.  

                          As usual, other people would attack us for being arrogant.  That is their business, not ours.  Anyway, my answer here as well as the coming Choy-Li-Fatt course is not meant for them; it is meant for our own Shaolin Wahnam students.  We have been very generous, even allowing other people to learn our secrets, but if they don’t appreciate this gesture, we are not going to waste our time on them.  



                          Choy-Li-Fatt is an external art.  Only very few great Choy-Li-Fatt masters have internal force. These masters started with external methods, but over many years of dedicated training their external force became internal.

                          Hence, internal force is a highly desired ability in Choy-Li-Fatt – in fact in any art.  It enables the practitioners to achieve what other people using external force cannot achieve, like sparring for a few hours without feeling tired or panting for breath, and having vitality in our daily life irrespective of gender, size and age.  


                          Yes, I shall include internal force training in the course.  The training methods, like triple-stretch exercises and exercises from the Eighteen-Lohan Art, were those used by Choy-Li-Fatt masters in the past.  Our course participants need not train for many years to develop internal force; they develop internal force during the few days of the course itself!  This is incredible, but true.


                          How do we know that our students have developed internal force during the few days?  They are able to do what internal force enables one to do, like sparring for a few hours without feeling tired irrespective of gender, size and age.  If they use external strength, they will be unable to achieve this.

                          Using dumbbells to develop force is external training.  Many Choy-Li-Fatt students do this.  This is nothing special in Choy-Li-Fatt, though it may be special for students of other styles.  But we shall use dumbbell training in an internal way!  This is special.  


                          How do we differentiate that most other Choy-Li-Fatt students use dumbbell training in an external way, whereas course participants in our coming Choy-Li-Fatt course use dumbbell training internally?  They use muscles, whereas we use chi.  They become tired after training for 15 minutes, whereas we can go on training for an hour.

                          How do we know that what they develop is external force, whereas what we develop is internal force.  Their force is limited by gender, size and age, whereas our force is not limited.  For example, their female, smaller, and elderly students will be unable to match their male, bigger, and young students in force, whereas our female, smaller, and elderly students can be more forceful than the male, bigger, and young counterparts.


                          In the course, we shall let our students train dumbbells in an external way first like most other Choy-Li-Fatt students do.  Then our students train dumbbells internally. In this way they can compare both the different training procedures and the different results.



                          Combat application, of course, is an important part of the coming Choy-Li-Fatt course.  Many kungfu practitioners complain that they cannot use their kungfu techniques in combat because they have to wear gloves.  This is an excuse.  Even when they take off their gloves, they will be unable to use kungfu to fight.

                          Choy-Li-Fatt is an excellent art for fighting – with or without gloves on.  Indeed, if all other things were equal, Choy-Li-Fatt is more effective than martial arts for combat in present-day free sparring conditions.  Students who wish to take part in free sparring competitions or who wish to have friendly free sparring with practitioners of other martial arts but are unfamiliar with their ways of fighting, will find this course very useful.
                          "
                          - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit




                          Best wishes,
                          Markus Kahila
                          Shaolin Nordic Finland

                          www.shaolin-nordic.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dear Sifu,

                            If a student shows interest in competing in MMA events, how much should their instructor encourage them? What benefits would there be from training for such a competition? What negatives would there be?

                            -Matt

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dear Sigung,

                              I would be very grateful if you would consider these two questions as part of the '20 Questions for Grandmaster: Choy-Li-Fatt and Kungfu Against Other Styles' series of questions.

                              1. In the film “Ip Man 2” a fight between a boxer named Twister and Ip Man is a very closely contested affair. Did the film makers portray a plausible scenario? By this I mean, could the combat efficiency of a skilled boxer nearly equal that of a very highly skilled Wing Choon Kung Fu master such as Ip Man?

                              2. Are some styles of Kung Fu more suited than others to fighting with boxers? If so, which ones and why.

                              Thank you,

                              Kevin

                              Comment

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