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  • Advanced Training - Who, When, How,...

    Dear Family!

    I have been asked about my perspective on the most adequate way to approach advanced training in our Shaolin Arts and thought it would be a very interesting topic to discuss with my seniors, my fellow instructors and our SWI brothers and sisters.

    How, when, with/through whom,... have you seen it done?
    How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the best progress?
    How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the least progress?
    What is your perspective about this topic?

    Thank you in advance for your comments!

    Respectfully,

    Piti

  • #2
    Dear Piti Siheng,


    Thanks for posting this thread!


    How, when, with/through whom,... have you seen it done?
    - Luckily, I've myself seen advanced training methods being taught only by Sifu and the qualified instructors. Like Sifu frequently emphasizes, advanced methods should only be learned from a master qualified to teach them.


    How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the best progress?
    - Not surprisingly, I've personally seen the fastest progress with those who've received Sifu's teaching. However, I've seen very good results also with students who've learned the arts from qualified instructors.

    Nevertheless, for good progress in any advanced art, one needs to have a really good foundation in the basics.



    How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the least progress?
    - In our school, those with lacking or unfocused practice, and those without a solid foundation.


    What is your perspective about this topic?
    - I think it is very useful to discuss this topic. Probably all of our students know that practicing and teaching any advanced art requires the supervision and permission of a master, but it is very important to highlight this every once in awhile.



    Best wishes,
    Markus Kahila
    Shaolin Nordic Finland

    www.shaolin-nordic.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Dear Sisook Piti and Sisook Markus,
      thank you very much for starting this thread.
      May a lot of readers benefit from it.

      My answers are as following:


      Originally posted by parrapiti View Post
      How, when, with/through whom,... have you seen it done?
      Sigung teaches the most advanced arts.
      I clearly remember that, a few years ago, my Sifu (Sifu Kai) denied to teach Dan Tian Breathing. He explained, that he simply was not advanced enough to teach it.
      Unnecessary to notice, that Sifu Kai is very, very advanced!!

      Originally posted by parrapiti View Post
      How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the best progress?
      In my observation, the more advanced the art is, the more the progress depends on the skill of the practitioner (and the Master) and the less it does depend on the technique.
      Take the example of the Yi Jin Jing Course in Germany.
      Sigung mentioned, that years ago he taught 49 repetitions and now reduced it to 3. Further Sigung kindly explained, that it was more about the skill and the level of the practice and not about the number of repetitions.
      I noticed myself, that only a few minutes of Golden Bridge generated more internal force than more minutes practiced by beginners. Which does not mean that shorter Golden Bridge is necessarily better. It means simply that the achievement depends on the skills.

      The progress depends therefore on 2 variables:
      1. the Skill of the teacher
      2. the Skill of the student.

      How to achieve the best results then?
      Learn advanced arts from the best master is one. I will focus on this in the next answer.

      Another is, get the prerequisite skills!

      My philosophy is: walk the Shaolin Path step by step, patiently and persistently. Do not hurry to learn techniques but focus rather on skill development.

      Originally posted by parrapiti View Post
      How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the least progress?
      Least progress equals no progress. That can be caused by lack of prerequisite skills.
      Similarly to building houses is it with kungfu development. The base has to be stable otherwise your house will be not steady.

      The other cause can be a teacher who is not ready to teach the art. Similarly to building houses, you need a skillful architect who offers and explains the know-how so you can build a steady home.

      Originally posted by parrapiti View Post
      What is your perspective about this topic?
      I appreciate this topic and hope that this discussion will grow and benefit many practitioners.
      Engage and maintain joyful practice!

      May all of you get the best benefits from what you do.

      Anton Schmick
      Shaolin Wahnam Germany Nord

      shaolinwahnamchina.com
      http://chikunghamburg.wordpress.com
      http://shaolinwahnam-nord.de
      http://kungfu-luebeck.de

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Anton S. View Post
        In my observation, the more advanced the art is, the more the progress depends on the skill of the practitioner (and the Master) and the less it does depend on the technique
        Absolutely.

        I don't believe we should ever forget the importance of sincere direction from a qualified instructor.

        I heard recently that some students were attempting to teach advanced sets to others, despite being told not to do so. I believe that this is incredibly foolish. Such behaviour demonstrates a clear lack of understanding about the difference between skills and techniques.

        The idea to pass on, or learn, an advanced set can be sincere but without the wisdom and understanding, it is entirely contrary to the aims of the Shaolin Wahnam Institute.

        Demonstrating a set is, of course, completely different

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darryl View Post
          I heard recently that some students were attempting to teach advanced sets to others, despite being told not to do so. I believe that this is incredibly foolish. Such behaviour demonstrates a clear lack of understanding about the difference between skills and techniques.
          It also goes completely against Sifu's mission. Teaching an advanced set that you yourself just learned is not preserving these arts; it is debasing them.
          Sifu Anthony Korahais
          www.FlowingZen.com
          (Click here to learn more about me.)

          Comment


          • #6
            If it were so easy to teach, everyone would be an instructor. As I mentioned to my Chi Kung class this weekend:

            It is one thing to learn to do something for yourself; It is very different learning to teach others.


            I sometimes mention a story of a Chi Kung course participant from a few years ago. In fact I used this exact story to demonstrate my point today.

            A woman attended a weekend seminar with Sifu here in Switzerland. Despite warnings, she (a therapist of some kind) went off to teach chi kung straight after the course. Not only did she try to teach chi kung after just having learnt it, she also tried to do so at Sifu's level (which not even we instructors attempt).

            Some time later I got a call from this woman asking for help with a "student" of her's. The student had developed severe psychosis. The "teacher" now has to live with that on her conscience.
            Sifu Andrew Barnett
            Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

            Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
            Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
            Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

            Chi Kung Courses: May 2019 in Landquart CH
            QEA Discussion Forum: www.qea.ch/forum

            Comment


            • #7
              Take this opportunity

              Dear all,
              In fact this is a thread is basically meant to get an impression about our students opinions and thoughts as well.

              I recommend all students of all Shaolin Wahnam branches to take the opportunity to get a wonderful leasson, which may improve your performance tremendously!

              Best regards and a happy discussion,

              Roland.
              "From formless to form, from form to formless"

              26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
              Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

              Website: www.enerqi.ch

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm going to try to give some answers, but as a student, I find it quite hard to give opinions on this.

                How, when, with/through whom,... have you seen it done?
                By Sifu and by my senior brothers (Instructors).

                I think all teaching by Sifu is advanced, but to give some recent examples;
                The Iron-Wire Set taught by Siheng Marcus and Siheng Anthony at the summercamp was very advanced, and brought some "deep" manifestations in my training. The same happened at the wedding celebrations, when Siheng Anthony taught the Iron-Wire there. Very simple, and briefly (the first few times only lasted about 10 - 15 minutes), but such deep teaching/ transmition.

                How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the best progress?
                When the heart is open, when there is confidence and when there are the least expectations, brought for me the best progress. Being happy and proud to be able to practise these great Arts as best as you can. Also diligence, perseverance and adding nothing.

                How, when, with/through whom, have you seen the least progress?
                in my own experience; when there is no focus - clinging on irrelevant taughts - worrying, and when there are expectations/ ego comes into play.

                What is your perspective about this topic?
                Very interesting. Altough my mental clarity is a bit to low to fully understand

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dear Hoorenz

                  Even though I am nowhere near advanced yet I've been following this thread with interest.
                  And as such, I would now like to thank you dearly for your input=)!
                  It made me feel better in quite a many ways:

                  I have the tendency, due to my at times still impatient and far too ambitioned nature, of building pressure on myself as soon as the words "progress" and "good/solid basics" are mentioned. I am literally driving my poor sisters (and occasional brother) mad at times.
                  Your point of "being proud to be able to even practise these Great Arts" is a great one. I've only recently realized all the things this actually means.
                  My training/thoughts have been calmer, happier and a little bit more focused ever since=).

                  It is true that my best trainings are those where I can simply let go and be happy with what I've achieved so far, even if it isn't much compared to most of my brothers and sisters=). The days where I manage to let go of all the things I expect from myself are the days where I feel at peace, liberated and full of energy.

                  So thank you very much for sharing your experiences, they made my heart feel lighter and my mood even more brilliant=)!

                  Warm greetings to all

                  Fabienne


                  Comment

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