Revealing False Statements

[Antonius]

Hi everyone.

I'm starting this thread in an effort to continue where I left off with the "Discerning Real From False in Writing" thread. The idea for this thread was specifically sparked by Yeniseri's comments in the "Dr. Yang Jwing Ming Chin-Na Videos" thread. In this regard, I should thank Yeniseri for raising an important issue.

However, much of this post will be spent picking apart Yeniseri's posts. I do this so that readers can benefit from watching me reveal the falsity of his statements. I want it to be clear that I am not attacking Yeniseri personally. This forum is dedicated to spreading quality information. In this regard, I do my best to correct falsities wherever I see them. The purpose of this thread is not only to correct Yeniseri's falsities, but to raise awareness among our readers so that, in the future, they can do it for themselves.

In the "Dr. Yang Jwing Ming Chin-Na Videos" thread, Yeniseri made 11 comments. I will now analyze them one at a time. This will be a long thread, so please bear with me.

It is I who must correct your misunderstanding while saying your view is a good one.

Yeniseri's premise is that I am incorrect, and that he is in a position to correct me. He presents himself as an authority. This premise is false, as we will see below. In short, I will show that Yeniseri doesn't know what he is talking about. Of course, I also present myself as an authority, but I have creditials for all to see. For example, I openly reveal my full name, my picture, countless videos, and I am authorized to teach by Sifu Wong. More importantly, I write in a way that makes the truth clearer, not more obscure. For example...

"Qi'na has within it striking, kicking, pushing, throwing, and so on."

This statement shows that Yeniseri doesn't know what he is talking about. The statement is nonsensical, and it is important to recognize it as such. This is where mental clarity is essential, and where our training can really help us. It also reveals that Yeniseri's training does not bring him mental clarity.

Let's rearrange his sentence, and see if it makes any more sense: Kicking has within it chin-na, striking, pushing, throwing and so on. Obviously, this statement is false. Kicking is kicking, and doesn't include chin-na. Similarly, chin-na is chin-na, and doesn't include kicking. Unlike Yeniseri, I call a spade a spade. Chin-na is chin-na, kicking is kicking, and punching is punching. Of course, I can simultaneously apply chin-na while kicking, but that is not a case of chin-na having kicking within it; it is a case of simultaneously applying chin-na and kicking. Simple.

Its translation is seizing, grabbing, catching, trapping and other similar words.

This statement is false. For starters, Yeniseri doesn't even spell Chin-na correctly. There are several different spellings, like "qin-na", but in all spellings, the first word, "Chin", should have an "n." Yeniseri consistently spells the first word as "Qi", which reveals that he doesn't understand Chinese. The first word, "Chin", means catch; "Na" means grip. The destructive aspect of chin-na is in the "na" or grip. The "catch" is supportive.

Seizing is not relegated to hands and the feet are part of the equation.

This is another blatantly false statement that anyone with common sense can recognize. Chin-na is done with the hands. We cannot "catch" with our feet any more than we can throw a ball with our feet. While applying chin-na, we can use our feet to trap or lock our opponent, but the feet cannot apply chin-na. They simply cannot catch or grip, unless you are a gorilla. The feet are used for trapping and locking, not for chin-na. Only the hands can apply chin-na. Once again, I am calling a spade a spade.

Imagine that you kick your opponent, and you hold him with your hands while kicking. In Yeniseri's format, this would be and example of: "kicking is not relegated to the legs, and the hands are part of the equation." Of course, this is false. Kicking is kicking. You need not use your hands to kick, although you may do so if you choose.

Can a kick be part of qi'na? if you know what to do with it and how you define it.

A kick is not part of chin-na. A kick is a kick; chin-na is chin-na. You may, if you are skillful, execute a kick and a chin-na at the same time. This is, quite simply, executing a kick and a chin-na simultaneously; it does not make the kick "part of chin-na." Once again, you can apply the chin-na without the kick, or execute the kick without the chin-na.

To extend outward is to kick.

False. To extend outward is to extend outward. You can extend outward with your hand, as in a punch, or with your leg, as in a kick. You can also extend outward with your stance, as in moving forward in the Bow-Arrow stance, but this is not kicking.

but the leg can serve to trap the other's leg to throw (attempt) then seize with hand(s)

False. When you kick, you kick; you do not trap. When you trap, you trap; you do not also kick. You cannot kick and trap simultaneously; you must do one or the other. We can kick and THEN trap, or we can trap and THEN kick, but kicking and trapping are separate techniques. They are also different from chin-na, although they may be combined in various ways. Yeniseri doesn't seem to have the mental clarity to see the difference.

One does not need form to learn qi'na

This is both false and misleading. We need form to learn and apply chin-na. In the videos, Dr. Yang uses specific stances, arm movements, and body positioning to subdue his opponent. This is form. Without it, there would be no chin-na. Of course, form is not enough. Having skill (and force) is essential, but form is a basic requirement.

but sadly that is how it is marketed as part of learning today.

This is an example of Yeniseri being irresponsible. He acts like an authority, but those with mental clarity can see that he is not. Yeniseri's statement implies that Dr. Yang is wrong because he markets his chin-na videos with demonstrations of form (which Yeniseri says is unnecessary). Of course, one needs form for chin-na, as I already mentioned. Dr. Yang is not marketing form, but rather generously sharing his skills with the public. Form is a part of that equation.

It is both irresponsible and disrespectful for Yeniseri to make the above statement. Dr. Yang Jwing Ming is a world-renowned authority on chin-na. I myself have met and learned from Dr. Yang, and many of us in Shaolin Wahnam, including Sifu Wong, hold him in high esteem. We are grateful for his generosity in sharing his knowledge so openly.

Your view is valid from your perspective so please do not think otherwise

This statement implies that my view would be invalid from other people's perspective. This, of course, is false. What I have explained is not my personal view, but the established view in kungfu culture. Yeniseri is welcome to argue his point here, but I suspect his words will only strengthen my point.

and your comments are praiseworthy so thank you.

Finally. A true statement!

In summary

Out of the 11 statements in Yeniseri's post, 10 were false. And yet, Yeniseri writes as if he is an authority. He regularly gives advice on this forum, but at least 91% of the time, his advice is false and/or misleading.

However,his posts are not a total waste. We can, for example, use them to practice revealing false statements, as I have done here. This will be a good exercise in applying the mental clarity that we gain from our Shaolin training.

If we are going to pass these arts to posterity, we must be diligent in our efforts to spread qualilty information. In this regard, we must also make efforts to stop the spread of misinformation. That is one of the purposes of this forum, so please take full advantage of the opportunity, both here and in other threads.

Best to all,

[Jordan]

Nice post

Its hard to beat clarity. I am sure your post will help raise awareness of discerning false from real and the importance of mental clarity.

[Ronan]

Thanks for starting this thread Anthony, it's a perfect opportunity to clear up any false statements, past or present.

We do this not out of spite or anger at Yenseri, but because spreading quality information and dispelling misinformation is the dedicated function of our whole Shaolin Wahnam organization.

Yenseri has been giving a lot of false information but acting as if he were an authority. So I would also like to comment on some of his posts. We don't want our forum members, especially our students, to be misled.

There are so many false statements from Yeniseri given as if they were authoritative advice, I almost don't know where to start! So I'll just start with this one (if anyone else would like to elaborate on any of his other gems please feel free )

On 6th July from "Modern Science and Qigong"
"Saying that qigong can heal everyone and everything is bogus and deceitful. It is indeed an exercise that can induce a 'relaxation response' for focus and healing. Degree and extent of healing is a different matter because qigong is not and cannot be for everyone! Some people may not like it becasue it is 'foreign' and its language is rooted in superstition."

Such statements by a qigong teacher are shocking.. No wonder qigong today is in such a deporable state. As we have the privilege to practice high level qigong, it is our responsibility to reveal such false and damaging statements.

According to qigong philsophy, there is no such a thing as an incurable disease, Basically, illness, any illness, is due to energy blockage. Once the blockage is cleared, the illness disappears as a matter of curse. We have many examples in Shaolin Wahnam to substantiate this fact. Nevertheless, not every patient can be cured. If a patient's disease has passed a threshold, for example, he may not recover. It is therefore more urgent to dispell false statements about Qigong so that people in need may make use of the opportunity to practice before they have passed their irreversible threshold.

Qigong is much more than just an exercise that can induce a relaxation response! At its lower level it overcomes pain and illness. At its middle level it gives health, vitality and longevity. At its highest level it leads to supreme spiritual fulfilment.

Qigong can be practiced by anyone irrespective of race, culture and religion. Its language in certainly not rooted in superstitions. Its philosophy is born of centuries of experience, and the language to describe it is clear to those who know.

Best wishes

[Jordan]

Good example brother Ronan. In the same thread there is yet another case of false information:

On the 6th July 2006, Yeniseri posted:
"Because I deal with qigong in a health arena, I have to be realistic with people. If someone asks me "will qigong cure diabetes?" my answer is a blanket 'No' as opposed to saying yes. To say yes is to fool and deceive!"

This is another irresponsible statement, which also shows his ignorance.
Sifu has helped many diabetes patients to recover completely. I am sure other instructors have also had excellent results.

One example Sifu has mentioned before concerns Eduardo, who lives in Honduras. I believe this was the most rapid recovery Sifu has had with a diabetes patient. Eduardo suffered from diabetes for years and had to monitor his sugar levels everyday. He attended the chi kung courses on the 'Blue Mountain' in Costa Rica in 2003 (I think). Despite not taking his special diet on the Blue Mountains, he recovered from his diabetes in about seven days -- even before he returned to Hondulas.

[Antonius]

I met Eduardo last year at Sifu's courses in Miami. Very nice guy. I think it's important to point out that Eduardo's case is the fastest recovery from diabetes, but certainly not the only one. I don't know how many of Sifu's students have cured themselves of diabetes, but there are many. And of course, there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of students who have cured themselves of everything from depression to heart disease.

Those of you who have been reading Sifu's words for years will know that he says this over and over again. And now we are saying the same thing: incurable diseases can be cured. It's important for people to hear this because the majority of qigong instructors out there speak like Yeniseri and treat qigong just as a relaxing exercise.

Everyone who has learned from Sifu knows that qigong is far more than a relaxing exercise. What you may not realize is that your experience is the exception, not the norm. Many well-known qigong instructors talk like Yeniseri. Very few people openly say what Sifu says, or what we say here.

This is why it is important for us in Shaolin Wahnam (including students) to reveal and correct statements that we know -- from our own experience -- to be false. If you've met one of Sifu's students who cured themselves of a particular illness, you can share it here (or in other places). Or if you've cured yourself of something, even if it is low-back pain, then please share it on the forum. Speak from your own experience, but please -- speak. It's important that our voices be heard.

[Adam Kryder]

Worlds Changing

Dear All,

When I was in Spain about 3 years ago (2003) I was running on the street, I jumped a guard rail, landed over-extended and damaged my knee.

The pain was sharp, and would ache for years to come. In reference to the same injury sustained by my father, his symptoms and their similarity to mine I became sure that I had Damaged the Cartilige of the Platella tendon. He being much older than me and suffering the injury at a different intensity, had surgery. But my case was never formally diagnosed and eventhough this happened before my training in the Shaolin Arts I could not believe my father when he told me that his doctor told him that "Cartilage Cannot Heal!" So I opted to try to heal it myself.

I began training Shaolin Cosmos Qigong in March 2005 under Sifu Anton in Kitchener, Ontario. But it wasnt until a month or two after the February 2006 Intensive Kung Fu Course with Sigung in Malaysia, that I realized that I had not had pain in my knee for a while. I honestly dont know exactly when it disappeared, but I have Sigong, Sifu and myself to thank for the recovery.

Having experienced such miracle, I became engaged in a conversation with my Grandfather about his double knee replacement, to which he, echoing the voice of my father, proceeded to tell me that "cartilage cannot heal" and that he had no cartilage left in his knee before the Surgery, Bone on bone. I told him my story and of how my knee has been healed by Shaolin qi gong and all of a sudden I was being somewhat attacked by my father, saying "You were never Diagnosed, you dont know it was cartilage!" my grandfather said nothing in my defense. So I said " I am sure it was Cartilage, and I still cant agree with you on this topic" and ended the conversation.

This event struck hard. And was deepened watching my grandfather struggle while Baptizing 3 Children in Georgian Bay. I do not consider myself a Christian, however, my Grandfather who is a Reverend of the Episcopalian Church, has been a man whose perserverance, open-mindedness, and views of the Cosmos/Infinity/Ultimate Reality (for lack of a better word) is very much in line with the practice of Qi Gong. My grandfather has always been a paragon of health and vitality, but now I have seen him growing old. The practice of the Body ? (shen1) not supporting the ideals of the spirit/mind?? (Shen2)??

Im sure this is much harder for him to live, than for me to see, but this is something I believe very true of myself in the past, and humanity in general. An attitude that can be summarized by "You dont know my pain, you dont know how I feel this/that cannot heal" and is a lasting motto of suffering, physical, emotional, or spiritual.

(?? Tian1xia4) One interpretation of The Principle of Tian1Xia4 is roughly- If we are so individually different in our suffering then why do we all live in the land under heaven. The Human Conditon is Humanity as a Whole.

Similarly, I found myself silenced when my Cousin told me that his Father (My Uncle in law) who died of cancer, practiced qi gong. I wanted explain the difference, but at that time, I chose silence. I just said "That Qi Gong is not the same (as what I practice)" Knowing that if he were to take up the Shaolin Arts, the answer would find him.

Q: My question is, how do we handle such a task as telling somebody that they have suffered or a loved one has suffered due to the generally 'injured' state in which the general public views such arts as the ones we practice?

A: Gently, from the heart, and with correct timing and spacing, and with continued practice and dedication to the Shaolin Arts

Anything Else?
-------------------------------------------
Writing this post, I have realized that it takes a Warrior to expound something like we are expounding, and a Warrior to recieve that same teaching.

I am humbled by this post, and the experiences behind it, and in practice await the day that I may transmit the Shaolin Arts .

Best Wishes

Adam Kryder

[Antonskafar]

As I recall...

Dear Adam,

As I recall, by the time you began your Zhan Zhuang training, your Knee complaint was practically gone.

I remember when we had tea, and you mentioned to me that your knee was a concern due to your accident.

After your recovery, you were so inspired by your experience, that you told your grandfather.

I had tea with him on a very hot summer day 2005, where we enjoyed airconditioning at a local coffee shop.

He asked me if he could cure his knee problem. I told him, from my position there is no reason why he couldn't. It was up to him to decide where he wanted to go with the Shaolin Arts. I would have been delighted to pass on Chi Kung to such a wonderful person.
By the time that we had tea, he had already decided to go through the surgery as his doctors prescribed.
For what ever reason, we never got around to him learning Chi Kung from me.

I am not here to save the world from its suffering.
I am here to pass on the amazing arts that were passed on to me.
It is up to people to eat a slice of humble pie, and make the effort to learn, just the same as all Sifu's students have done.
The rewards are high for what you invest.

Best wishes.

[cnholmes]

Or if you've cured yourself of something, even if it is low-back pain, then please share it on the forum. Speak from your own experience, but please -- speak. It's important that our voices be heard.

My problems are only minor ones, as I described in my thread Step By Step to Happiness. I've added an update on there today

http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47180

[Antonius]

Finding happiness is not a minor issue, Chris. Thanks for sharing. I hope more people will be inspired to share their stories as you have done. It takes a bit of courage to step up to the podium and talk about yourself, but it is an important act.

It also takes courage to correct false statements, both publicly and privately. As Adam hinted, it takes a scholar-warrior to do this. Sifu is a wonderful example of a scholar-warrior. Over the years, Sifu has made his voice heard loud and clear. What he says is not always welcomed by others, but he says it anyway because he is dedicated to spreading quality information about these arts. Other masters have even challenged Sifu to a duel for saying things like "incurable diseases can be cured", but that didn't stop him.

As I've said before, I aspire to the courage shown by my Sifu.

[Guest]

Sifu is a wonderful example of a scholar-warrior. Over the years, Sifu has made his voice heard loud and clear. What he says is not always welcomed by others, but he says it anyway because he is dedicated to spreading quality information about these arts. Other masters have even challenged Sifu to a duel for saying things like "incurable diseases can be cured", but that didn't stop him.

Sifu indeed is a brilliant man

P.S. Antonius check your e-mail(the zenergy account)

[Adam Kryder]

Sifu,

Indeed!


Best Wishes

Adam

[Shaolinfist]

Chi Kung recovery

Hi there, I have a story of a quick recovery from a minor injury! I recently suffered an injury to my hip where i was messing about with a friend whilst drinking (lol)!
I got him in a headlock from behind, and he threw me over his shoulder. I landed on the concrete onto my hip! For the rest of the day my hip was hurting and I walked with a slight limp. The next morning it was the same, but I went to the park and practiced some Chi Kung and Stance training. It wasnt untill later that day that I realised my hip was better! I know that this kind of injury would normally bother me for longer, maybe a week!
Many thanks again and allways to Sigung Wong and the other instructors and practicioners who are spreading these wonderful benefits to us!! Especially my good friend Sifu Ronan, without whom I may never had heard of Shaolin Wahnam!!

Shaolin Salute

Phil

[Baguamonk1]

Thank you!! its all so clear now!