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Yang Style Combat Application by Dr. Yang Jwing Ming

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  • Yang Style Combat Application by Dr. Yang Jwing Ming

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,
    I found this clip that might be of interest to you.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=H99qHOOAf8g


    Best,

    Ray
    "Om"

    I pay homage to all the great masters of the past and the present

  • #2
    great vid thanks

    Comment


    • #3
      Cool

      When I'm good enough, someday, I want to make a video and show app's of taiji, but containing alot of strikes. And various ways both in and out of form to do so, possibly as realistically (with person actually trying to punch me). Ahh, we can all dream The thing I like most about taiji is the ability to apply its methods both fast, with explosive power (fajing) and also with long power (not fajing). For example diagonal flying could be used the way he showed it, long power, using leverage to throw them, but it could also be used with fajing, to strike the person violently and throw them at same time.

      And mixing bagua, xingyi, and taiji is just so fun Too bad Liu He Ba Fa seems to be so rare, and even existant ones seem to be..vastly different from eachother (in otherwords there are already different styles of LHBF).

      Comment


      • #4
        Have just finished enjoying the excellent video-clip.

        Do you notice the stances used by Dr. Yang Djwie Ming?

        Joko
        P.S. Thanks , Ray. for the link.
        开心 好运气
        kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
        open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
        ------------------------------------------------------------
        Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
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        Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by joko View Post
          Do you notice the stances used by Dr. Yang Djwie Ming?
          Would everybody here agree that the stances Dr. Yang is using are neccesary for the skillful and succesful application of these techniques?

          Mark
          少林華南台灣 Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan

          Facebook

          "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

          -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

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          • #6
            Thanks, Ray. That was fun to watch.
            Chris Didyk
            Shaolin Wahnam USA


            Thank You.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow,

              That is one old video.
              Dr. Yang Had hair back then.

              Best wishes,

              Anton

              Comment


              • #8
                Of course stances are needed for successful application. I have seen Wu teachers do the same technique without such a wide stance though. It didn't look like the same stance, but it in fact was. Depending on the situation, they don't always have to look picture-perfect according to the technique in the form. The stance can be much higher. He is showing it CLEARLY so that you can NOT mistake the technique in form, and the application.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The link does not work anymore.

                  Originally posted by Baguamonk1 View Post
                  Depending on the situation, they don't always have to look picture-perfect according to the technique in the form.
                  Having "picture-perfect" (I like that) form in combat application is one of the marks of a master.

                  We have a wonderful principle that we use in our training: "Every movement a masterpiece". Not so easy in practice, but a clear aim to work for.
                  George / Юра
                  Shaolin Wahnam England

                  gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It depends on what your definition of "picture perfect" is. I think skillful application with solid form is picture perfect. I think what Baguamonk is saying is that the application doesn't always have to look exactly like the form. We may want to alter it slightly to suit the situation.

                    For example, we can use the pattern Bar the Big Boss for many different combat situations and the form may alter slightly. We may for instance use, horse riding stance, goat stance, Bow Arrow, our lead hand may be a fist or open, it be at 90 degrees angle from the body or 45 degrees, our guard hand may be high or low etc.

                    But it should still be very obvious to others who have seen the pattern demonstrated in solo form practice that we are using Bar the Big Boss. If you alter it totally and throw away stances and form all together then you're throwing away key points that make Bar the Big Boss such an effective technique.

                    If you are a Master then fighting an amatuer then it may be reasonable to throw away some advantages given by the form and just do Bar the Big Boss from a natural standing position, but as we are not Masters, we can't afford to throw away such advantages.

                    Best wishes
                    "A single light can eliminate the darkness of millennia; a single piece of wisdom can dispel the ignorance of a million years. Do not worry about your past, always think of your future, and for your future always think good thoughts"

                    Hui Neng The Platform Sutra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree.

                      I was not saying to totally alter it or change it, especially not while teaching others, unless you spefically say why you are doing so. It is still the same technique/application, only difference is you are adapting it to real life, so if you are goint to use taiji principles accurately, you have to change the shape of the outer form sometimes to match what is being thrown at you.

                      Maybe in practice it can be "picture perfect" but unless someone throws an attack, just like they do in demonstrations, or sparring, it can be very different. You know what I mean? No one who is untrained, or trained in different art/sport is going to come at you, in deep gong bu punch or "snake shoots venom" giving you the picture perfect counter. I know you guys would adapt, I am just saying why it can be difficult.

                      Suppose someone throws a completely different attack on you, but you are going to apply a similar technique. Or perhaps it is a punch just like in taiji demo's, only the angle is different and the speed is different. You can have the same effect by simply uprooting him without elongating your posture or waste time trying to make it perfect. What I am saying is that when someone is spontaenous, it is very difficult to apply a picture perfect technique, not because it takes an insane amount of skill, but most likely you won't need it...I have the opportunity against someone who doesn't trained IMA/CMA to do these kind of picture perfect techniques is rather small. It does wonders on other CMA (because of stance work) guys though. I guess what I am trying to say is taiji uses its most basic principles (you know, peng, lu, kao, 13 postures etc.)to mold, or adapt to what is coming at you. And very rarely does a perfect opportunity when someone throws a slow, uncordinated, telegraphed, perfect-for-taiji-counter punch in a competitive or real environment. Just my two cents.

                      I would rather see these teachers apply it against a real punch, not 8 feet away, and do it right without a picture perfect posture, than with. But then again it is "instructional" unfortunately most people won't get it or reckognize form pattern if it is not clearly defined in application.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Baguamonk1 View Post
                        What I am saying is that when someone is spontaenous, it is very difficult to apply a picture perfect technique
                        Did you expect kung fu to be easy? Of course it's difficult to apply a picture-perfect techinque spontaneously. Nevertheless, we do it all the time. When you follow a systematic sparring methodology, using picture-perfect techniques is simply a matter of practice.

                        So if you are goint to use taiji principles accurately, you have to change the shape of the outer form sometimes to match what is being thrown at you.
                        Minor adjustments are always necessary, but the form of the pattern remains basically the same. Someone familiar with the technique should easily be able to name it by observing. I'm speaking about Shaolinquan, but the principles are the same with Taijiquan (and all styles of Kung Fu).

                        Maybe in practice it can be "picture perfect" but unless someone throws an attack, just like they do in demonstrations, or sparring, it can be very different.
                        And yet there are still general categories of attack. There are high punches, low punches, middle, punches, circular techniques, kicks, throws, etc. Different styles deliver these differently, and yet a person only has two arms and two legs and can only attack in certain ways. If you are well trained in your style, it doesn't matter what style you are facing.

                        Those "picture perfect" techniques are the essence of the style you are practicing. Does a Thai boxer change his style when facing a kung fu practitioner? Then why would we change when facing them?

                        Suppose someone throws a completely different attack on you, but you are going to apply a similar technique.
                        There is no such thing as a completely different attack, unless your training is incomplete. I have trained against every conceivable category of attack. This doesn't mean I've trained against every specific attack, but an attack from another style (any attack!) will fall into one of the categories.

                        Take a look at this video from about 3 years ago. The gentleman in red is a friend, and practiced Northern Shaolin at the time (he now practices Tongbeiquan). I did not teach him any of his techniques. All I taught him was how to apply them spontaneously.

                        This video shows our first sparring session ever. I was completely unfamiliar with his attacks, and they come from different angles and in different ways than in my style. And yet, I was able to easily counter all of his attacks. Would you agree that my counters are picture-perfect?

                        That video is 100% spontaneous. Nothing is preplanned. It's true that we were going slowly, but if we had continued practicing together (I moved to Florida ), then increasing to full speed would only have been a matter of practice.

                        I would rather see these teachers apply it against a real punch
                        A real punch? So Taijiquan and Shaolinquan do not contain real punches? I suspect that this subtle slip reveals a lot about your ability to use kung fu in sparring. Perhaps you'd like to prove me wrong with some videos? As Ronan said in another thread, it would be nice to know if we're dealing with a 16-year-old with a computer, or an experienced martial artist.
                        Sifu Anthony Korahais
                        www.FlowingZen.com
                        (Click here to learn more about me.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No, I said what people show in demonstrations 90% of time is not a real punch, which is totally expected because it is a demonstration. It would be great if every once in a while someone showed an example against a full speed punch that does not come from a mile away and completely telegraphed.

                          Picture-perfect stances are ok, I am just saying the need for a picture perfect stance is not always there. Because you can use the same stance, from a higher position, or whatever position and achieve the same result depending on what is being thrown at you. And the methodologies on stances and usage of stances in shaolinquan is NOT the same as alot of different forms of IMA. Beyond the surface that is. And also Muy Thai people have alot of different stances and work in their traditional root arts, when its come sport, and fighting, only the usage of the basics is necessary.

                          Increasing to full speed over a long period of training against every new obstacle thrown at us is not something we have the luxury in alot of different situations. That is why sparring, and slow sparring helps. BUT the video is really cool, and that is really good gong fu. Keep up the training man, I wasn't trying to contradict
                          Last edited by Baguamonk1; 24 September 2006, 10:48 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Because you can use the same stance, from a higher position, or whatever position and achieve the same result depending on what is being thrown at you. And the methodologies on stances and usage of stances in shaolinquan is NOT the same as alot of different forms of IMA.
                            So in your opinion, what are the stances for?
                            Sifu Anthony Korahais
                            www.FlowingZen.com
                            (Click here to learn more about me.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Baguamonk1 View Post
                              Picture-perfect stances are ok, I am just saying the need for a picture perfect stance is not always there. Because you can use the same stance, from a higher position, or whatever position and achieve the same result depending on what is being thrown at you.
                              As I understand it, the form of the stances gives you specific advantages (that's why the form is there in the first place).

                              If you modify the form, then you lose some of these advantages. In practice that may not make any difference, however it contradicts an important principle of "safety first".

                              "You hand your defeat to your opponent, but you must work to achieve victory."

                              Giving away any advantages is giving your opponent an opportunity to win. It does not matter if the opponent is not skillful enough to use this opportunity. To rely on such inability is very unwise, as well as arrogant (not directed at you personally).

                              For example, when I sparred with a few of my friends, I only managed to land a few strikes in several minutes. However, they were unable to land even one. This was mostly due to my stances (and they are not even that good yet).

                              I have a useful training exercise that helps me build confidence in defending. Because it is so easy to get too focused on blocking, or guarding, I will sometimes practice combat sequences with my partner with my hands behind my back. This way I only have my stances to rely on and it still works.
                              Last edited by George; 24 September 2006, 09:12 PM.
                              George / Юра
                              Shaolin Wahnam England

                              gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

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