Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Real Skill ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Real Skill ?

    Hello!

    Recently I saw a video on Facebook of a Taijiquan master and his student. They were standing in a position like the starting position of pushing hands and suddenly the master jumped back about a meter. The student was not moving. The master wrote on Facebook he was teaching his student Fa.

    What is Fa? I also want to ask our family members if it is possible to let people jump away by touching them but without physical movement.
    I think if it is possible the receiver has to do chi flow afterwards because of the chi which was entering him. But I am not sure if someone can really let somebody jump away without moving physically.

    Tell me your opinion!

    Best wishes
    Bernhard
    "No matter what you do, you must be clear in your conscience." - Sitaigung Ho
    "Goodness begets goodness." - Sigung

  • #2
    Sifu taught fa jing in his intensive kungfu courses . Fa-jing literally means exploding force.

    https://shaolin.org/video-clips-11/u...5/fa-jing.html

    Damian Kissey
    Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
    www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

    Comment


    • #3
      You mean Fa means Fa Jing? But is it possible without moving? Is it possible to first stand still in contact and then without physical movement let the other jump away?
      "No matter what you do, you must be clear in your conscience." - Sitaigung Ho
      "Goodness begets goodness." - Sigung

      Comment


      • #4
        I am reminded of the marvellous Dragon Strength Course which I was so lucky to attend. We learned to generate Dragon Force and to explode it with relatively little external physical movement. A video can be found here :

        https://www.shaolin.org/video-clips-.../dragon26.html

        In the end of the clip, you can see course participants trying it out with one another.

        Best regards,
        Steffen
        May all beings be happy

        Thank you.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've seen some pretty interesting demonstrations of capturing the partners root and balance then a little release force to send them away with very little movement. I've only been able to do it a few times during chi sau. One time I caught my partners arm straight and with just a little lifting force up into his shoulder he was launched up about 30cm and back about 1 1/2 meters, I'm pretty sure he wasn't faking because the look on his face was genuine surprise, my face must have showed surprise as well. The trick I think was using sensitivity to force them to get a little locked up or tense so they can't dissipate the incoming force. It's an interesting skill and takes many hours of sensitivity training to click even a little. It's not something I can replicate at will yet.
          Shaolin Wahnam USA

          "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

          Comment


          • #6

            I'm lucky enough to be friends with a fair number of folks in other schools and they can attain similar demonstrations of release force or otherwise sending folks flying away. One such friend belongs to a Ma Weiqi Baguazhang school, where much of their power comes from manipulating, expanding, and contracting their joints in such a way that is in some ways similar to our Sinew Metamorphosis. The result of their training is a body that moves together as one large unit, rather than being broken up into segments. Interestingly enough, the better trained they are, the more they "bounce away" when they are hit in a way that overwhelms their defenses, because when one part of their body moves, the entire body moves with it. The less skilled they are, the more that force penetrates into their body through a weak point and they more or less collapse in on themselves. This friend sees it very much as "physical" skills in both sensing and body mechanics refined to an extremely subtle degree.

            Another friend of mine has some training in the Yang Taijiquan of Yang Shaohou. The story goes that Yang Shaohou practiced Yang Luchan's version of Chen Taijiquan, while Shaohou's younger brother, Yang Deng Fu, modified the family's art into the Yang Taijiquan that is popularly trained today (sometimes derisively called "old people's Tai Chi"). Anyways, I've seen similar demonstrations where two practitioners were in a starting position of Pushing Hands (a stationary Immortal Waves Sleeves with their forearms crossing) and one of them would exert force to send the other stumbling away. When I practiced with such people, I noticed that through some very small and subtle movements, they were pressing into each other to feel out their partner's structure for a weakness, and then suddenly and forcefully sinking into their stance in such a way that vibrated their force against the ground and then shot up through their arms and into their opponent to send them flying away. They mentioned doing this so that they could not only use their own force, but to exploit and use power from the ground as well. Such movements often are "invisible" unless you know what to look for. A somewhat similar (and much more obvious) effect is achieved by some Xingyiquan, Wuzuquan, and Chen Taijiquan practitioners who purposefully train stamping to help them shoot their force into an opponent. In some ways, it is similar to what my siheng, David, mentioned above; using sensitivity and guiding the opponent into a way to get locked up or tense so that they can't adequately defend against the incoming force.

            Dragon Strength has been mentioned in this thread, and I'm lucky enough to have seen it once in person back in 2012. My siheng, Robin Gamble held Sifu in a grapple from behind, who proceeded to "just" bend forwards a little bit and shrug as he straightened his body, and next thing I know, Robin was on the floor, haha. That was my first kung fu course in Shaolin Wahnam, so I didn't really know what to look for. Sifu mentioned afterwards that he used his Dragon Strength skills to do such a thing. After the Glory of Shaolin course in Finland a few years ago, I spent some time practicing the Dragon Form to try and get a similar skill, but I've only been able to practice it with a few people, and the last time was several years ago, so I don't know how effective I am at that sort of thing; I'm definitely not at the stage of having my force be so subtle that it's invisible to onlookers. Probably my silliest moment was using release force on a training partner I had back in 2015 or so. His stances were not very good, so he wound up stumbling backwards about fifteen feet with no control whatsoever. I actually had to chase after and grab his wrist before he crashed backwards into the mirrored wall.

            Anyways, hope this sheds a little bit of insight. In short, the skill of "making someone fly away with seemingly no movement whatsoever" exists, though my own experience is "the movements are there, just extremely subtle and refined and you have to know what you are looking for to see them." Whether or not such a skill can be achieved with mind and energy alone, I'll leave that to someone else who knows what they're talking about. My kung fu is very much at the level of form and obvious application, not stuff like that!
            I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

            Comment


            • #7
              I thought Bernard was talking about those guys who can supposedly send their students flying without even touching. Which is just mind control / hypnosis and only works on compliant conditioned students. There’s a famous video of one of those guys doing it to his students, then trying it on a non compliant kickboxer, and the kickboxer knocks him out. Hypnosis / mind control is in a way “real”, it’s just of limited use for fighting as it doesn’t work against people who haven’t been or can’t be conditioned to it.

              But when the exponents are touching, I agree that an expert can send another flying with seemingly no movement or very very little movement.

              Comment

              Working...
              X