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  • Shen Men Tao

    Dear Sifu Stier,


    I'm wondering if you can help me. I've been trying to do some research on Shen Men Tao on the internet and all I could find was a brief biography of your good self.

    Are there any resources out there where I could see some photos or video clips of Shen Men Tao practitioners in action? Perhaps you would care to treat our forum members with some photos or videos of you and/or your students.

    Also, I was wondering if you have any schools in Australia, particularly Melbourne. I'd be honoured to meet some Shen Men Tao practitioners in the flesh.

    Thanks in advance,
    Last edited by Jeffrey Segal; 24th November 2004, 06:39 AM.
    Jeffrey Segal

  • #2
    Re: Shen Men Tao

    Dear Si-Hing Segal:

    A Shen Men Tao website is currently under construction, but not yet completed. I will let you know when it is good to go. In the meantime, I may be able to extract some recent photos from a disc to post here. I'll get back to you with more details later. This System has been quite private and secretive since its inception, and all of the older Masters, except our Founder, would prefer to see it remain that way. They are quite upset at times, and ever disapproving of my open sharing with others as I have done here.

    I'm sorry to say that there are currently no Certified Shen Men Tao System Instructors 'Down Under', or any practitioners living in Australia either to the best of my knowledge. All Master Grade practitioners at present live either in
    North America or the Far East, especially Hong Kong and the New Territories, China (PRC). Most are elderly men, age 72 and older, who are already retired from their careers and from teaching. This is one of the reasons I have come to be designated as the Leader of the Pack! A thankless job most of the time, but someone has to do it! It is my great Honor and Privilege to assume the responsibilty of current Standard Bearer. I have no worries, and no regrets in so doing.
    http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by SifuStier
      my open sharing with others as I have done here.
      Dear Sifu Stier,

      We are very grateful for your generosity in sharing your knowledge with us, and we hope that you continue doing so. The level of kung fu has degraded so much these days, it is very shameful, and without the masters sharing their methods and great wisdom then it will degrade even further.

      If you ever decide to write a book please I would like to be the first to know

      Thank you,
      MoMo.
      "If you can walk one mile, you can walk a hundred miles"
      Sigung Ho Fatt Nam

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MoMoJuice
        We are very grateful for your generosity in sharing your knowledge with us, and we hope that you continue doing so.
        Sifu Stier, I wish the same!
        Best wishes,
        Panu

        Arriving at one goal is the starting point to another. (John Dewey)

        Comment


        • #5
          Dear MoMo and Ovidius:

          Thank you both so much for your kind support here. Book is also in progress,
          and will hopefully be published on schedule in the Spring 2005. I visited and posted on every Chinese related Martial Art Forum Board I could find online, but encountered mostly insecure, insulting, and argumentative people who do not deserve to have what I wished to share with them.

          These Wahnam Shaolin Boards have been the sole exception. I was welcomed warmly and openly here by almost everyone, including Grandmaster Wong, and have felt that this is the best place from which to share some of the fruits of my long labors. I sincerely thank you all for being so receptive to my presence here. May God abundantly bless each and every one of you!
          http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SifuStier
            Book is also in progress, and will hopefully be published on schedule in the Spring 2005.
            This is very great news, I'm so happy to hear this. Thank you Sifu Stier for informing us. I can't wait to get a copy of it.

            Respectfully,
            MoMo.
            "If you can walk one mile, you can walk a hundred miles"
            Sigung Ho Fatt Nam

            Comment


            • #7
              thanks

              Dear Sifu Stier,

              Thanks for your post. I'm looking forward to checking out the website and reading your book when they are ready.

              Best wishes,
              Jeffrey Segal

              Comment


              • #8
                Greetings to Sifu Stier

                I am very excited that you will be sharing the fruits of your labours with us. Perhaps as an ethnic Chinese, I can understand the reticence of your tongmen (or fellow disciples/Masters). But as the bunch of us Chinese Taijiquan students were msuing out loud that day, if not for the fact that our Chinese arts were spread to the West, they may well have died out during the Cultural Revolution or even earlier. Of course, the fact that broad transmission degrades the arts upsets me sometimes, but that is only to be expected. It only means there is a spectrum of expertise, which is a lot better than extinction.

                I attribute my progress in Taijiquan to 3 main sources, Sifu for teaching me qi flow, my instructor for unlocking many secrets for me, and Western authors of Taijiquan who also helped to decipher many secrets in the classics. I am the tiniest beginner in Taijiquan but at least I can now see clearly that I am on the right track. The amazing thing is that Westerners who do not necessarily know the language can attain such heights whereas so many Chinese remain at the superficial level (like me). Perhaps it is really a case of the arts transcending verbal communications.

                Sorry for the unnecessary discourse above. My intention in writing this post was to point out that Shen Men Tao is virtually unknown to the general public, but there has been at least one drama serial on it (《短刀行》, 张卫健饰演 Hong Kong-Taiwan). The story was of a pugilistic family known as Shen and they were instrumental in ridding ancient China of evildoers. The skills were passed down to sons but everyone in the family were expert pugilists. If that story is true, then I think Shen Men Tao may be traced back to the Shen Family. Perhaps Sifu Stier can enlighten us on the history in later posts. I look forward to more stories about Shen Men Tao.
                百德以孝为先
                Persevere in correct practice

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you for your kind words Sifu Stier. We try to uphold and live the teachings of our Master and your words confirm that we have made some progress . I am sure we all look forward to reading and learning more from you and to celebrating the release of your book.

                  Andrew
                  Sifu Andrew Barnett
                  Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                  Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                  Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
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                  Chi Kung Courses: October and November 2018 in Landquart CH
                  NEW: Introduction to QEA in PENANG: 2nd December 2018

                  QEA Discussion Forum: www.qea.ch/forum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dear Zhang:

                    The System name, Shen Men Tao, translates into English literally as 'Spirit Gate Pathway' or 'God's Door Road'. This 'Shen' is a Tone 2 Character meaning 'God', 'Spirit', 'Divine', 'Mysterious', 'Miraculous', and so forth. It is the same 'Shen' referred to in Taoist Internal Alchemy regarding the refinement and transformation of 'Jing' to 'Qi' to 'Shen'. This 'Shen' has no relation to the two Honorable Family Names listed among the 200 most common Chinese Family Names, i.e. 'Shen' Tone 1 meaning 'the 9th Earthly or Terrestrial Branch (3-5PM); or 'Shen' Tone 3 relating to a place name from which the Shen Family took their name. To the best of my knowledge, the latter of these two is the more common Family Name. Famous members of this Shen Family include Shen Chou (1472-1509 AD) a landscape artist in the Ming Dynasty; and Shen Yueh (441-513 AD) a State Official and Scholar of the Liang Dynasty, famous for his work in phonology, i.e. the sounds and sound changes (tones) of Chinese language. I hope this clarifies the meaning of 'Shen' as used in Shen Men Tao.
                    http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ah, I see. So it would be:

                      神门道

                      Sorry for the mistake. I am familiar with the 200 names - we had to study a text known as 《百家姓》in school.

                      BY the way, SifuStier, you may wish to call me Wuji instead of Zhang. Zhang is the surname and it is not customary to call a Chinese by his surname unless it is a friend and even then it is prefaced with "Lao", so it is like "Good Ole Zhang".
                      百德以孝为先
                      Persevere in correct practice

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SifuStier
                        I visited and posted on every Chinese related Martial Art Forum Board I could find online, but encountered mostly insecure, insulting, and argumentative people who do not deserve to have what I wished to share with them.

                        These Wahnam Shaolin Boards have been the sole exception...
                        Well if you hang around long enough SifuStier I am sure that you will find that - none of us being enlightened (AFAIK anyway ) - we too can do insecure, insulting and argumentative It just takes more of an effort

                        rgds

                        Mike
                        "If you realised how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought." Peace Pilgrim.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good morning to all!

                          Hello Zhang Xian-sheng:

                          My Master would beat me with his lovely rattan stick if my manners and etiquette were so bad as to address a stranger by their given name! Now that we know each other a bit, however, I will gladly do so as you have requested. I am reluctant to address you as 'Lao' because I do not know your age, and have been taught to think of this as reserved for addressing those older than myself. I am 55 years young. And you?

                          Regarding the written Chinese Characters for Shen Men Tao, Wuji, you are on the right track, except that we use the Traditional Character for 'Men' rather than the Simplified Character you used in your post. The other two characters you used were correct also. This Shen Men Tao System was formulated and named before the Simplified Characters were invented, so we
                          use the Traditional ones exclusively. It's only a few additional strokes in writing 'Men', so no big deal, right? Also, you were correct in assuming that I referred to the Bai3 Jia1 Xing4 as one of my resources regarding the Shen Family Name.

                          Wishing you much success and many benefits in your training!
                          http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dear SifuStier

                            Please call me Wuji. I am your junior in every way, whether in age, experience, skills or knowledge. But I wonder if I can address you as StierSifu since the title of a person in Chinese is behind the name.

                            "Lao" is actually used among friends, but I agree - it should be used with prudence. In this case, it is not appropriate as I am younger than you. The way I address you is easy - to a Grandmaster, I should only address you as Sifu Siter or in the Chinese way, StierSifu.

                            The Simplified and Traditional distinction actually matters a lot more to those learning Chinese now than to the native speakers, except maybe Taiwanese. I suspect the almost instinctive indignation some Western students (not you, StierSifu) have towards Simplified Chinese comes from their Taiwanese teachers. All my Taiwanese friends think that the new characters betray the Chinese language and culture. Chinese elsewhere generally don't subscribe to that view because like me, they can read both systems, but prefer to write in the new style because it is easier and faster. I come from the school that says "Use whatever works".
                            百德以孝为先
                            Persevere in correct practice

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I suspect the almost instinctive indignation some Western students (not you, StierSifu) have towards Simplified Chinese comes from their Taiwanese teachers.
                              He means me.
                              Sifu Anthony Korahais
                              www.FlowingZen.com
                              (Click here to learn more about me.)

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