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The Boxing Thread (2016)

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  • The Boxing Thread (2016)

    I must have watched these Roy Jones Jr. Highlights about ten times over the years.
    I'm not sure why I didn't share them much sooner, though I had often thought of doing so.

    I especially like his use of this Monkey trick:

    Screen Shot 2015-12-24 at 1.46.20 PM.jpg

    He also, at times, makes use of something very much like a good bow and arrow stance, which gives him very impressive reach and attack.

    Check it out:

    Roy Jones Jr. Highlight Video

    This is probably the shortest of the highlight videos. There are no shortage of other ones if you enjoy it.


    Yrs.

    Chas.
    Charles David Chalmers
    Brunei Darussalam

  • #2
    Roy Jones J.R. is a LEGEND! And his whole 'system' and 'way' was developed from his father's intensive training during his youth focusing on counter-punching and his unique style of movement that is TOTALLY monkey in essence, but was developed from cock-fighting between roosters with knife-like claws attached who 'shoot' in and out especially with the beak when fighting to the death. He's a super-genius of the sport, despite some (all-too-common in the West) personal celebrity lifestyle issues, etc.

    Another boxing legend who came into/returned to the TOP level at an age far too old to be considered even safe, is Bernard Hopkins and this instantly reminded me of this video in which he reveals many golden secrets and ingenious elements of boxing to a UFC star Rashad Evans when he was in his prime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHwPBTDDp00

    Definitely enjoyed both of these talented fighters do what they do over the years and motivate and inspire a lot of others who may think boxing is 'dead' now with mma on the rise (not that there is anything wrong with etiher)!

    Comment


    • #3
      What a thread, thanks!

      Originally posted by Charles David View Post
      I especially like his use of this Monkey trick:
      And what is most impressive of all, is that in the still you show, he is using that trick in his fight against James "Lights Out" Toney, who was probably the best fighter Jones ever faced, who was rated as the number 1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world at the time, and who is one of my favourite fighters ever. Not only that, Jones had moved up a weight for that fight.

      Originally posted by Charles David View Post
      He also, at times, makes use of something very much like a good bow and arrow stance, which gives him very impressive reach and attack.
      Quite a few boxers do that in my judgment, though usually when landing a punch or when standing "toe-to-toe" you often see it.

      Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
      Roy Jones J.R. is a LEGEND!
      Yes!

      Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
      He's a super-genius of the sport
      Yes!

      Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
      Another boxing legend who came into/returned to the TOP level at an age far too old to be considered even safe, is Bernard Hopkins and this instantly reminded me of this video in which he reveals many golden secrets and ingenious elements of boxing to a UFC star Rashad Evans when he was in his prime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHwPBTDDp00
      Fantastic! Really enjoyed that video, and had never seen it before! Amazing to see the enthusiasm Bernard Hopkins has.

      One great thing about the modern world, as opposed to twenty years ago when I had to pray I might catch a glimpse of the big american and mexican fights on ITV's highlights show "World Championship Boxing" (loved that show!) is that nowadays I can order the big modern fights on sky, but on youtube for free we can watch so many great fights of the past, including Jones vs Hopkins I, Jones vs Toney etc.

      Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
      Definitely enjoyed both of these talented fighters do what they do over the years and motivate and inspire a lot of others who may think boxing is 'dead' now with mma on the rise (not that there is anything wrong with etiher)!
      For a couple of years I sort of got out of watching boxing, but I have got interested in it again lately, I had preferred to watch MMA for a long time, and for a while I watched neither.

      Still it is a pity there is no one around like Roy at the minute. Floyd Mayweather has similar talent, most people I think would say even more, but he isn't as exciting because he doesn't go for the knockouts the way Roy did, and he doesn't challenge himself by moving up through the weight divisions I think.

      I think MMA might be good for boxing for this reason: we are all fed up with having 4 different champions at every weight, who then avoid each other. Even Roy was a little bit guilty of this at times. Whereas in MMA if you want the kudos and the big money then you have to fight the best, and keep fighting them. To compete in future, hopefully boxing will evolve in the same way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Since the topic of Roy Jones Jr. brought up mention of other boxers, I thought it best to change the title of this thread to "The Boxing Thread" and we can just see where that brings us.

        yrs.

        CC
        Charles David Chalmers
        Brunei Darussalam

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Charles David View Post
          Since the topic of Roy Jones Jr. brought up mention of other boxers, I thought it best to change the title of this thread to "The Boxing Thread" and we can just see where that brings us.

          yrs.

          CC
          Woops But Roy is without question one of the modern pillars and exemplary true fighters of the sport (not just an athlete and specialist)! Maybe the best of this generation of the sport that's now coming to a close with Mayweather and his lack of remaining challengers...

          I too think the world of mma and the slow return/rise of things similar to Glory, Pankrase, or K1 (like Lion Fight) will ultimately be great for the world of boxing as it can boost interest in diversifying or reinvigorating the sport and its competitors (definitely think Floyd and his whole 'Money Team' are either stagnating now or even potentially ruining the reputation of the game for most casual followers with a lack of real threat or challenge as he seeks to get his record and retire). Though boxing (and the above organizations) has more than its fair share of organized crime connection and discord, there is definitely potential for public opinion to boost its reputation and reintroduce an mma-generation to the fun of its specialized fights and unique flavor.

          Another set of important boxers, I think, were the Klitschko brothers (even though Wladimir recently lost his long-time hold on the heavyweight title) as they helped to both diversify the sport and expand its reach to a more global market.

          But I definitely agree that there is a bit of a scramble for ratings and excitement these days and that boxing, while amazing and interesting, could sure use some support and interest from the main-stream in this world of exciting brands like the UFC and others offering a unique and very unorthodox and engaging package (which is quickly becoming the new orthodoxy, it seems).

          Someone who is also a big inspiration is Ann Wolfe of the women's boxing world, who is something of a legend in her own right and VERY devastating!

          Comment


          • #6
            Boxing

            Don't know much about boxing and never seen a fight of Roy Jones but boy , ain't he a great boxer : thanks for sharing the footage .

            The few boxers I've seen on video were Mayweather , Prince Naseem and Ali and i'm very impressed with Naseem...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZImvzxfIZ8

            ...especially his speed , bodywork ( dodging and hitting simultaneously) , intent eyes with accurate KO strikes , continuous attacks and powerful punches
            Damian Kissey
            Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
            www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
              Maybe the best of this generation of the sport
              Hey Kristian, do you think Jones is better than Mayweather, pound-for-pound? The consensus view of the 'experts' is that Mayweather is better. But Jones was better to watch, more power, more aggression and therefore more knockouts. Also, I have never seen anyone with a body quite like Jones, if you look at his biceps, they stick way out in front when his arms are by his side, he is like Bruce Lee in that I have never seen a physique quite like either man's.

              Ps I don't know the answer to who is better, it is one of those where I would have an opinion, maybe place a bet, but I would have to see the actual fight before I would know who is best.

              I think the best fighters are Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong and Sugar Ray Leonard. Then I think Mayweather is in the next category along with Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran, Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor.

              In terms of excitement and great fighters to watch I like Julio Cesar Chavez, Mike Tyson and James Toney.

              Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
              that's now coming to a close with Mayweather and his lack of remaining challengers...
              See I think there are loads of challengers, but Floyd doesn't want to fight them, that is why I would never put him near the category of both Sugar Rays and Henry Armstrong. Mayweather stays at welterweight where there are easy fights, no one can overwhelm his skill with their power. Whereas the true greats always moved up the weights to challenge themselves. With Mayweather's skill I believe he should have gone to at least middleweight.

              Bernard Hopkins explains it better than me here:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ5GehL2es

              Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
              Another set of important boxers, I think, were the Klitschko brothers (even though Wladimir recently lost his long-time hold on the heavyweight title) as they helped to both diversify the sport and expand its reach to a more global market.
              Yes, and they are great guys outside the ring too.

              Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
              But I definitely agree that there is a bit of a scramble for ratings and excitement these days and that boxing, while amazing and interesting, could sure use some support and interest from the main-stream in this world of exciting brands like the UFC and others offering a unique and very unorthodox and engaging package (which is quickly becoming the new orthodoxy, it seems).
              The one advantage boxing has, is that while in MMA they often lie on top of each other for 5 rounds, which even Dana White agrees is boring and hence pays bonuses for knockouts, while boxing can be more entertaining. Only if it is knockouts though, no one wants to see Fury and Klitschko, Mayweather and Pac, Lewis and Holyfield stand and look at each other for 12 rounds. We want to see devastating knockouts a la Mike Tyson. In my opinion.

              Originally posted by Damian Kissey View Post
              The few boxers I've seen on video were Mayweather , Prince Naseem and Ali and i'm very impressed with Naseem...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZImvzxfIZ8

              ...especially his speed , bodywork ( dodging and hitting simultaneously) , intent eyes with accurate KO strikes , continuous attacks and powerful punches
              I loved Naseem, but I liked Barrera (who beat him) even more. With his talent he should have been one of the best ever, but he was trained wrong, if he had been trained properly in the Kronk Gym or somewhere to keep his hands up and keep coming forward, his skill, speed, power and shen would have been better utilised I think. But he was still brilliant even without that!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
                We want to see devastating knockouts a la Mike Tyson.

                Okay. Now, Tyson is another boxer who I know through his incredible highlight reels on youtube. His first twenty or so fights are simply amazing to watch, the speed and ferocity of the knockouts he dealt; five first-round knockouts in his first eight pro fights--what a monster.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImxUpS1UseA

                It was explained to me that one of Tyson's strategies was simply to use very few prearranged sequences again and again. Sound familiar?

                Yrs.

                Chas.
                Charles David Chalmers
                Brunei Darussalam

                Comment


                • #9
                  DrunkenBoxer, I think you make a very good point about the challenger situation and Bernard puts it down PERFECTLY! haha Perhaps it is just a money/image-motivated strategy of navigating around challenges that's adding to the stagnation because I definitely agree that there are more than enough talented and even incredibly decorated boxers out there, but not many willing to challenge themselves or the current situation as it takes big risk and promoters with different mindsets.

                  As for the best pound-for-pound boxer between Floyd and Roy, I think I would maybe clarify my choosing Roy; for me, Floyd is without doubt the best boxer of the two, pound-for-pound, in the ring, master of the sport; but, Roy, as can be seen in his style and something in his physique, is the better FIGHTER (in my opinion). He was brutally trained by his dad from his youth (as any champion, the consensus goes today, ought to be to even have a chance anymore) to street fight, with an impeccable and weird, unseen style of head-movement, footwork, and angled striking. I think Floyd can't be beat in the ring at this game, but Roy knows how to box for combat and for survival and so, for me, he will be the better boxer in a purist/street sense, whereas Floyd, though he could probably play god in the ring, may not be able to out fight Roy. In the boxing world, I think Floyd takes the crown; in a fighting perspective, though close, I would still side with Roy... if any of this^ makes any sense haha

                  Originally posted by Charles David View Post
                  Okay. Now, Tyson is another boxer who I know through his incredible highlight reels on youtube. His first twenty or so fights are simply amazing to watch, the speed and ferocity of the knockouts he dealt; five first-round knockouts in his first eight pro fights--what a monster.

                  It was explained to me that one of Tyson's strategies was simply to use very few prearranged sequences again and again. Sound familiar?
                  Tyson was indeed a MONSTER! And the prearranged sequence training he did with Cus D'Amato definitely was the key to a lot of his success: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu_hvAwzopI A lot like current champions, it is this counter-punching style that makes them both safe and devastatingly dangerous to engage (not unlike the entire basis of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do, which is interception, the highest, master, level of combat; no defense, direct counter). Cus became, effectively, a father to Mike and it was this grooming and his natural, massive power-punching that sent him to the top.

                  One thing Mike did which helped my own boxing training, was his uppercut-hook combination (and the inverse); No one I had ever seen (in my limited experience and watching) punched that way; he would just RIP those hooks to the body and IGNORE the head to demolish opponents from within/below. The way he would coil back and then uncork the hooks from his back (his lats) was insane and something anyone can train at home and see in a few minutes the power that adding the muscles of the lats to the knee and waist elasticity can bring! He also throws his hooks traditionally with the fist 'vertical' instead of the more Filipino-style hooks which have made their way into much of combat sports (for the better, I think), which makes his a little slower, easier to see, but if anything stands in their way it's not coming out of the contact undamaged or unbroken! haha

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Charles David View Post
                    It was explained to me that one of Tyson's strategies was simply to use very few prearranged sequences again and again. Sound familiar?
                    I did some searching, there were two clips I tried to find, but couldn't (without spending even MORE time watching boxing on youtube!)

                    There is one where it shows Tyson hitting a bag and the speed is incredible, for someone of his weight. Which is one of the reasons why he was able to beat all those heavyweights who were so much bigger and heavier than him, and which is why I think he is an all-time great.

                    The other, is where they show Tyson talking to his trainer just before he goes in for an amateur fight in the Golden Gloves. You see, I think Tyson's training might be a little like Matt Fenton mentioned on a thread here a few months back. Matt says he trains a 3-move sequence, but practises different moves to do as his 4th move, because he can't predict exactly what the situation will be at the end of the 3 moves, he might want to use a kick, a throw, etc so he lets things go a bit more free after that. (According to my understanding of what Matt says.) I think Tyson trained combinations, but also with times when he would let things go more freely.

                    You see, I have heard that Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney, like Charles said, had certain combinations that were numbered, so they could shout "5" etc and Tyson would know what combo to throw. In the vid I am talking about they don't quite do this but they say (I'm paraphrasing, don't remember exactly):
                    "What will you do if he throws the jab?"
                    "Slip to the right side, come over with a right hand, then left uppercut, then right hook to the body."
                    "What if he throws a right hand?"
                    "Slip to the left, come over with left hook then right cross."
                    etc going throw several situations, then the trainer says:
                    "What will you do if he comes inside."
                    "I'm gonna open up like a son of a b....."

                    I did find this video, from about 7.45-8.00 you can see that Cus D'Amato is explaining how Mike should do an "8". There is also a little bit of advice in there to "Make it perfect" that may remind you of someone.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-22RvoxJU_I

                    Kristian, you might enjoy this video, someone has selected the best 10 boxers ever (wish I could get hold of The Ring magazine list for this):
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DzbiTs7SK0

                    They don't include Roy or Floyd! They have Manny in there and Floyd overwhelmingly beat him. I think Floyd should be top 10 for sure. They don't have Aaron Pryor either, possibly because of shady drug rumours, but Floyd once said he thought Pryor would be the fighter with the best chance of beating him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
                      he would just RIP those hooks to the body and IGNORE the head to demolish opponents from within/below.
                      In the video I reference, this one here you can see him drop Michael Johnson, at the 5:00 minute mark, with a single powerful blow to his side. It is very impressive, and the fight, like most of those early ones, is over very quickly.


                      Just in case, I hadn't mentioned it, and to be clear: I am not posting here on the part of a boxer, just an interested spectator, humbly learning.

                      Yrs.

                      Charles
                      Charles David Chalmers
                      Brunei Darussalam

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What if they pitted Mike Tyson against Donnie Yen in a movie? (this movie just came out)

                        Last edited by LeeWeiJoo; 26th December 2015, 01:50 AM.
                        http://shaolinwahnammalaysia.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
                          Kristian, you might enjoy this video, someone has selected the best 10 boxers ever (wish I could get hold of The Ring magazine list for this):
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DzbiTs7SK0

                          They don't include Roy or Floyd! They have Manny in there and Floyd overwhelmingly beat him. I think Floyd should be top 10 for sure. They don't have Aaron Pryor either, possibly because of shady drug rumours, but Floyd once said he thought Pryor would be the fighter with the best chance of beating him.
                          I actually really like their list as they justify the rankings with some of the best highlights from the fighters and their records as well. I think they definitely should have had Floyd AND Roy on the list, especially considering their best performances and Floyd's record! Their list does stretch far back into boxing's legends and historic fights, but even with that factoring in, Floyd's fights have been on a standard all their own and though they put Ali first, there's no denying his decline in skill and even 'self' in his post-prison boxing days and personal politics and brain trauma which effectively cut short and altered what really could have been an unbeatable career.



                          In the video I reference, this one here you can see him drop Michael Johnson, at the 5:00 minute mark, with a single powerful blow to his side. It is very impressive, and the fight, like most of those early ones, is over very quickly.
                          What a powerful shot! Before Tyson I hadn't seen a single boxer drop so many people with shots to the body (something all boxers and promoters detest as it means, compared to getting knocked out via the inner ear/head, the boxer/fighter didn't prepare well enough as core conditioning is something they can always improve or work on, whereas getting rattled and dropped is not something that is considered resistible through most types of training barring insane forms of neck and jaw conditioning). He is definitely some kind of gifted genius of pain and calculated, scientific destruction!



                          LeeWeiJoo What if they pitted Mike Tyson against Donnie Yen in a movie? (this movie just came out)
                          WOW!!! hahah NEVER thought this would happen! I loved the first two Ip Man films and was thinking a third would not have a strong story to go off of, but with the apparent presence of a young Bruce Lee character AND Mike Tyson(!!!!) this is shaping up to be incredible!!! Very excited!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Charles David View Post
                            I must have watched these Roy Jones Jr. Highlights about ten times over the years.
                            I'm not sure why I didn't share them much sooner, though I had often thought of doing so.

                            I especially like his use of this Monkey trick:

                            [ATTACH]6252[/ATTACH]
                            I should thank you again for starting this thread Charles, as I spent a couple of enjoyable hours on my Christmas holidays watching boxing videos. In one of them, Roy Jones explained how he came up with that move. I think we have mentioned already that Jones and his father are country boys, they did a lot of hunting and fishing, and they kept pit bull terriers and fighting roosters. Jones said he copied this move from one of the fighting roosters. Not that I'd have been able to tell from looking at it. I guess they spread out their wings to intimidate and deceive their opponents or something.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              He learned from watching a rooster? Like a kungfu master of old learning from watching animals. (Why do I keep thinking of the praying mantis more than the other animals?)


                              Thanks for sharing.
                              Charles David Chalmers
                              Brunei Darussalam

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