Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

No Pain, No Gain! Discuss.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • No Pain, No Gain! Discuss.

    There is an oft-used precept in Western training. "No Pain, No Gain!"

    Discuss.



    Charles David Chalmers
    Brunei Darussalam

  • #2
    An interesting concept. I wondered where it originally came from and Wikipedia has this to say:

    No pain, no gain (or "No gain without pain") is an exercise mottothat promises greater value rewards for the price of hard and even painful work. Under this conception competitive professionals, such as athletes and artists, are required to endure pain (physical suffering) and stress (mental/emotional suffering) to achieve professional excellence.

    To me this approach has a place when pushing muscles to become stronger, pushing mental fortitude - for example in special forces training where the mental pressure and endurance required is punishing - and so it literally can be painful on a number of levels.

    i feel that some aspects of our human development do require this kind of stretching, overloading our senses to build aspects of ourselves. In the case of muscles it’s breaking the muscle and allowing it to regrow. With mental endurance it can take living and surviving through something to realise you have the ability to cope. It may simply be that stamina is required and this has to be built, and sometimes it’s painful or taxing.

    i would say that it doesn’t apply as a generalisation across the board. For example we can gain force by force training, which doesn’t have to be painful. We can gain skill by practice which doesn’t have to be painful.

    As a society we also have unconscious collective belief systems at play so we MAY think - albeit unconsciously - that we have to die or suffer to get closer to God for example, which is not the case. That could be painful.

    For me then, a motto that has its place, and something that is not to be taken too literally or generalised over our whole experience. I’d rather be clever about understanding the gains I wish to achieve and working out the simplest, most direct and preferably pain free way to achieve them.

    Finally, if we were to reword the motto to “No effort, no gain” that on the other hand would be closer to the truth.
    Last edited by Matthew; 25th June 2019, 04:18 PM. Reason: Duplicate word not noticed when posting from smartphone
    With love and Shaolin salute /o

    "Your purpose in life is to find your purpose & give your whole heart and soul to it." - Buddha

    Gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Charles David View Post
      There is an oft-used precept in Western training. "No Pain, No Gain!"

      Discuss.


      In what context Charles? Do you mean physical training, intellectual work, energy, spiritual cultivation or perception?

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting topic!

        If one were to give a more healthy interpretation of the phrase then I would say it is very true from my own perspective and experience.

        A lot of kung fu training is very uncomfortable and perhaps painful, especially when a method is new or has not been trained in awhile. Kungfu is a lot of very hard work! This is a form of pain, good and beneficial pain as opposed to the bad pain of injury, but pain nonetheless that one has to smile through in order to achieve the gains. Stance training and stretching comes to mind.

        Kungfu courses with Sigung or a retreat with Taisipak Kai has shown me the truth of this statement when taken in the proper context with the proper mindset.
        Shaolin Wahnam USA

        "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

        Comment


        • #5
          How about: "no gain, no pain"?
          George / Юра
          Shaolin Wahnam England

          gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Sihing,


            Growth generally is uncomfortable (could be interpreted as pain), at least in my experience.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mark CH View Post

              In what context Charles? Do you mean physical training, intellectual work, energy, spiritual cultivation or perception?
              Hello, brother. The context is open. You are free to interpret the topic however you like. The original saying, however, deals primarily with physical training. Your idea to go beyond the physical is very Shaolin. (Smile)



              Charles David Chalmers
              Brunei Darussalam

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Matthew View Post

                For me then, a motto that has its place, and something that is not to be taken too literally or generalised over our whole experience.

                Finally, if we were to reword the motto to “No effort, no gain” that on the other hand would be closer to the truth.
                Hi Matt,

                Looking for what truth and value we may find is a very useful approach.



                Charles David Chalmers
                Brunei Darussalam

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shamsher View Post
                  Hi Sihing,


                  Growth generally is uncomfortable (could be interpreted as pain), at least in my experience.
                  Hello, brother.

                  Taking a broader view of what constitutes pain is a good way to get something out of the original concept. I seem to recall some Shaolin discussion of "good pain" vs. "bad pain." Growth would certainly constitute good pain, in this respect.

                  Cheers

                  Charles David Chalmers
                  Brunei Darussalam

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by George View Post
                    How about: "no gain, no pain"?
                    I'm going to have to process this for a while.

                    Charles David Chalmers
                    Brunei Darussalam

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David Langford View Post
                      Interesting topic!

                      good and beneficial pain as opposed to the bad pain of injury, [...] Stance training and stretching comes to mind.
                      Thanks for the reply, David. I think the concept of good pain vs. bad pain is the direction that needs to be explored to make the original maxim useful and not harmful. Coming from a Western Athletic background, it seems a lot of bad pain was exalted...



                      Charles David Chalmers
                      Brunei Darussalam

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No pain, no gain?

                        Could it be that for gain we just activate already existing pain, in order to "meet" it smiling from the heart? (blockage cleared by flow) And that it is not needed to create new pain to achieve gain?
                        I just wonder....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Charles David View Post

                          Hello, brother. The context is open. You are free to interpret the topic however you like. The original saying, however, deals primarily with physical training. Your idea to go beyond the physical is very Shaolin. (Smile)


                          Ha ha

                          For me to start with just physical training, no pain, no gain is true. When I started boxing training initially, there was so much pain and not from every being hit. The pain was physical, in that my muscles ached from multiple rounds of skipping, punching the bag, footwork and then some crazy boxing circuits. There was months of this training before I even got to using the gloves to hit pads. However, this work was necessary before I could ever go into the ring and do pad work and box. Throughout this physical training, I had to deal with the mental pain of wanting to give up every few seconds to thinking should I fake an injury to get out of here So at the beginning of such training, I had the physical pain in the body and the mental pain in the mind. As I continued to persevere, the physical and mental pain got easier, the training got more enjoyable and then I could start seeing the gain. The physical gain was I felt physically stronger, healthier and fitter, while the mental gain was my mind was clearer and sharper. For this example alone, no pain, no gain in my experience is true.

                          I could say the same when I started Kung Fu. I disliked stance training at the beginning. It felt awkward and I was going through a new pain in my legs that was never used to and didn't like, and of course my mind was say right lets get out of here. This extreme shaking from standing still, was so strange. I pushed through two days of this training with Sifu and then on the last half an hour, things began to click. I felt full of energy, even though I worked very hard. I think my stances were shocking at this time too I had this experience of a new physical pain and the same old mental pain (always wanting to give up when something new arrived) but when I worked through this I had this new energetic gain; full of life, smiling and felling like I had energy to do everything I wanted. This continued along a similar path as earlier, the pain got less, stances became enjoyable and relaxing, and the mind was clearer than before along with having more energy.

                          For me, the physical pain was not much of an issue, I just had to dig deep and get through it. I was always more aware of the mental pain that was going on, especially of wanting to give up. But me personally I could not let it stop me. When the mind became swamped with quitting, I always saw Sifu smiling in his shiny suit in my mind and I kept going. I believe that if I did not go through these types of pain initially then I would not have received the gains I have now. And looking back now, these so called "pains" were not really that painful.

                          Finally I believe that even if it something different such as studying for a qualification, people go through so called pains such as mental exhaustion, thinking you are stupid and struggling with the material, but continuing to work through them, these pains will go and you will receive the gain. Maybe then onto the next pain to reach a better gain

                          Best wishes
                          Mark



                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X