Family Terms in a Kungfu Family

[Andrea]

Dear Piti Sipak - yes of course it should be "Sije - Start vor mir". Thank you. Ich wusste nicht das Du Deutsch sprichst.

Dear Bernard Sisook - yes it is Sijat and Sijatlui you are right, thank you. I was thinking the relationship is "cousins", but it is "nephew". I am not very good with relationship designations even in Western terms, when it gets beyond "brothers and sisters". Bellow are the updated diagrams in German and English.

And a small add-on. Saying that "Sifu" is not a title is not entirely correct. It is only true within a Kungfu school. But when non-family members call Sigung: "Sifu Wong", the "Sifu" here simply means "Master", and works as a title.

Andrea

[Dorit]

Dear Andrea,

this was a wonderful explanation - thank you very much for that!

My best wishes to you, and may your Chi Kung teaching always go well

confermezza/Dorit

[parrapiti]

Dear Sister!

Thank you for the very clear "tree". It is very helpful.

Please check the "nach mir" under Sije - I think it is the other way round...

Best regards,

Your brother,

Piti

[Bernardo]

Excellent and clear post, Andrea!

For those like me who are a generation "younger", I do not know the correct name and I can't recall anybody using one...they simply call me by name.

I think that's Sijat and Sijatlui.

Regards,

Bernardo

[Andrea]

Dear Confermezza Siguje

It will become clearer when you think of these terms as family relationship terms (Verwandschaftsgrade) - because that's what they really are. They are no titles .
As your "Sifu" is your Kungfu Father/Mother, there can be only one. In our school the teacher who first introduces you to our school is your " Sifu". All other relationships are deducted from this one. This is why Sigung (Grandmaster Wong) is your Sifu. It does not matter if you take courses with another teacher later. Just like in a real family, it does not matter if your uncle shows you how to ride a bicycle, your father is still your father .

This is different from other traditions, where the teacher carries a title ( "Sensei" in the Japanese tradition for example). What might make it even more confusing, is that there are Kungfu schools today (at least here in Switzerland) that use "Sifu" as a title for any instructor in their school. However in our school this is not the case.

You can address other Shaolin Wahnam instructors, just like any other Shaolin Wahnam Family members by the family relationship term. Most instructors will be of the same generation as you (their Sifu is also Sigung/Grandmaster Wong) and will have started in our school earlier than you, thus they are your older brothers (Sihing) or Sisters (Sije). For those like me who are a generation "younger", I do not know the correct name and I can't recall anybody using one...they simply call me by name.

I hope this makes it a bit less confusing

Best regards
Andrea

[Dorit]

Dear ... Andrea,

this is just a subject I am thinking about ... since I do not know how to response correctly and politely to the Sifu's being present here.
I am not sure at all - my first teacher being Grandmaster Sifu Wong at a course, and my personal teacher at another course being Irene in Linz. Andrew (?Sihing?) told me Grandmaster Wong would be my Sifu, and Irene my Sije ... and all the others not being my teachers directly?

Sorry for me being so confused ... but how to address correctly to you and other present Sifu's?

kind regards,
confermezza
Chi Kung student

[Andrea]

Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family

I am preparing some materials to help my student understand the family terms correctly. I am missing the female terms corresponding to Sipakgung/Sisookgung. The diagram below is in German - but I hope it illustrates which terms I am missing. Does anybody know what they are?

Best regards
Andrea

[parrapiti]

Thank you, Brothers!

Piti

[qingui]

Would TaiSije be the correct way to address the first Sister in our School...?

This how I understand it. If one wants to add a prefix such as first(Tai), second (Er), third(San) and etc to the title then both sexes are group together taking into consideration.
For example if the most senior student in the school is a lady then she is the TaiSije and if the second is also a lady then she is the ErSije. If the most senior male student comes third then he is the SanSiHeng and not the TaiSiHeng and so on. Since there are thousands of us in Wahnam, it is just not practical to address our brothers/sisters this way. I think it should suffice just to address either SiHeng, Sije etc.

I would therefore think that it is probably not "formally" correct to address the most senior female as TaiSiJe if she is not the most senior among all male and female. However I think it is not wrong to address somebody as TaiSiJe out of pure respect.

[Andrew]

As I understand it, Piti, yes.

[parrapiti]

Dear All!

Would TaiSije be the correct way to address the first Sister in our School...?

Respectfully,

Piti

[Andrew]

Great idea, Alex --- consider it done

[AlexBaranosky]

Is there anyway we could sticky this? Or perhaps put a shortened version of it somewhere that is easy to find on the Virtual Kwoon?

I myself still have trouble with these and have to search for the thread every once in a while to look up the names. Maybe we could make it easier for others who aren't as proficient at using searches online.

[Emiko H]

Dear Jeroen,

It was a genuine pleasure to meet you at the Small Universe Course.

I could not agree more with this statement:

Next to respecting our Kung Fu culture, using the correct names to address our kung fu brothers and sisters is also an excellent way to train our mental clarity and use our Kung Fu in daily life.

Please give my warmest regards to your Sifu (who is my Siheng).

Best wishes,

Emiko (Siguje)

[Jeroen]

Mental clarity and the three levels of practice

Kung Fu family names
It cost me some difficulty to find this post again, so I'll just put a reply on it to provide some freshness on it. Hopefully this may also benefit some other relatively new students.

Practicing mental clarity through Kung Fu names
Next to respecting our Kung Fu culture, using the correct names to address our kung fu brothers and sisters is also an excellent way to train our mental clarity and use our Kung Fu in daily life.


The three levels of practice
This reminds me of the three levels of Practice Sigung mentioned during the Small Universe Course.
1 make sure you do practice
2 always practice correctly
3 always aim to practice at your best skill level
Clearly, practicing at level 3 should transcend and include the previous 2 levels, as shaolin students should progress in a linear fashion without stepping back.
As an example, practicing only once a week at the best of your skill level does not mean you are practicing at level 3. It means you are not even practicing at level 1.

Happy practice,

Jeroen