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Ba Duan Jin (Eight Pieces of Brocade)

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  • Ba Duan Jin (Eight Pieces of Brocade)

    In one of "Questions and Answers" by Wong Sifu he mentioned about "Ba Duan Jin" which he did recommend. I love doing "Ba Duan Jin" or "Eight Silk Brocades" and this has become my daily training ritual amongst other things.

    I would like to meet members of this forum who are also doing "Ba Duan Jin" and discuss matters pertaining to it.

    Best Regards,
    Frank

  • #2
    great exercise

    Frank,

    Baduanjin is a wonderful exercise to complement any method.
    Though generalized in orientation and scope, it still has wondrous benefits.

    The many variations are interesting enough where I have incorporated the ones best suited for a specific group. I teach a class for elders and the routine is adapted for sitting and for standing. The younger groups do a more varied and active routine.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeniseri,

      Interesting. I agree with you that it can be modified to suit people of different age groups and different physical conditions. Keep on the good work.

      Frank

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Frank

        It is surprising that no Shaolin Wahnam members have replied to you yet.

        Interestingly, while we do not practise Ba Duan Jin as part of our official syllabus, our Eighteen Luohan Hands is also found in Ba Duan Jin. Obviously we have 10 more patterns, although personally I only know 3 of the 18.

        I am aware of some differences between our 18 Hands and Ba Duan Jin, particularly in the breathing methods. For example, in Lifting the Sky (Shuang Shou Tuo Tian), we breathe in as we raise our arms, whereas some practitioners I know breathe out when extending the arms upwards. I think it depends largely on the objectives of the exercise, or it could simply just be a natural variation as the the two sets of exercises evolved through different masters. In fact, I believe that Ba Duan Jin is far from homogeneous among practitioners. I have seen at least 4 different ways of Lifting the Sky and Shaking Waist outside Shaolin Wahnam.

        If you ask for my favourite of the Ba Duan Jin (18 Hands), it must surely be Lifting the Sky. I have a sneaking suspicion it is the same for just about every Shaolin Wahnam student.
        百德以孝为先
        Persevere in correct practice

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Wuji,

          Lifting the sky is a very good and powerful exercise. It has cleansing properties. As for me this is the first thing I do in the morning during my training ritual at 5.30am.

          Best Regards,
          Frank

          Comment


          • #6
            18 Lohan and 8 Brocade: different

            Zhang,

            I realize systems are known by other names but here is my own reference.

            Ba (8) duanjin (Brocade) is a different routine and a kind of warmup exercise with good exercise benefit when compared to 18 Lohan. I practiced 18 Lohan years ago and it is similar to changquan.

            Comment


            • #7
              The 18 Lohans is a very good and effective basic Chi Kung exercise. It does incorporate some Ba Duan Jin exercises.

              Best Wishes,
              Frank

              Comment


              • #8
                There are indeed many variations of both the Eight Brocades and the 18 Lohan Hands. In Shaolin Wahnam, the Eight Brocades are the same as the first 8 Lohan Hands. We rarely use the Eight as a routine but more pick out individual patterns for specific (or generic) aims.

                Andrew
                Sifu Andrew Barnett
                Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
                Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

                Chi Kung Courses: October and November 2018 in Landquart CH
                QEA Discussion Forum: www.qea.ch/forum

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dr.Frank Loo
                  The 18 Lohans is a very good and effective basic Chi Kung exercise.
                  As we learn them, each of the 18 patterns is a very powerful Chi Kung exercise. The benefits are available for the novice and the Master alike. As the practitioner develops his/her skills, they can use these exercises for the lowest or the highest goals of Chi Kung training.

                  Andrew
                  Sifu Andrew Barnett
                  Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                  Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                  Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
                  Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

                  Chi Kung Courses: October and November 2018 in Landquart CH
                  QEA Discussion Forum: www.qea.ch/forum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It won't be the first time, nor last time I say this:

                    "Lifting The Sky" is more than enough for anyone.
                    Sifu Anthony Korahais
                    www.FlowingZen.com
                    (Click here to learn more about me.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with Andrew and Anthony absolutely.

                      Correct me, if I am wrong that "Litfting The Heaven" relates to the fire element according to I-Ching and the direction is south. In view of this it has very powerful Yang energy.

                      Amongst the benefits, it has a direct relation with the heart, small intestine, stomach and lungs.

                      If one lacks Yang energy "Lifting The Heaven" is an ideal rountine.

                      For the purpose of general discussion under this thread it would be interesting to hear the experience of those who are doing "Lifting The Heaven". As for me, I can feel the energy (chi) gets to tip of all my fingers almost immediately when I start doing it.

                      Best Regards,
                      Frank

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Frank,

                        Lifting the sky is described by Sifu Wong as being one of the best exercises in chi kung. Its main function is to promote overall energy flow (from Chi Kung for Health and Energy by Wong Kiew Kit).

                        Sifu Wong does not mention facing any particular direction whilst doing the exercise or the I'Ching.

                        If you click on the link, you will be taken to Sifu Wong's home page. There is a photo of him doing lifting the sky on the left side, and general information about Wahnam chi kung.

                        Chi kung

                        I have also included a link to the questions and answers series which cover many aspects of chi kung practice (although not the points you raised).

                        Q & A

                        Sometimes I do lifting the sky as part of the 8 brocades set, sometimes on its own, or part of a random set. It feels different each time.

                        Best wishes,

                        Phil
                        Last edited by PhilH; 4th December 2005, 09:27 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Phil,

                          Neither did I say one should face a particular direction. I did say "Lifting the sky" relates to the south. I gather the 8 silk brocades has reference to the 8 directions of the Ba Gua. It does make sense to me. Having said that I really don't have the answer whether one should face a particular direction when doing it.

                          Best Wishes,
                          Frank

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Frank.

                            I gather the 8 silk brocades has reference to the 8 directions of the Ba Gua.
                            I've never heard this connection between Ba Duan Jin and Bagua before, but it is interesting. However, my understanding of Ba Duan Jin is that it originally came from a set of 12 exercises, and was later shortened to 8. Perhaps it was later that they tried applied the theory of Bagua.

                            Having said that I really don't have the answer whether one should face a particular direction when doing it.
                            Generally speaking, the best results are obtained if you practice qigong facing the east. But much depends on where you are practicing. For example, it is also good to face a body of water. If the body of water is not to the East, then you should pick the direction that feels best, which may or may not be East.

                            Correct me, if I am wrong that "Litfting The Heaven" relates to the fire element according to I-Ching and the direction is south. In view of this it has very powerful Yang energy...Amongst the benefits, it has a direct relation with the heart, small intestine, stomach and lungs.
                            In our Shaolin Wahnam school, "Lifting The Sky" is the most holistic of all our qigong exercises. It does relate to the Heart, as well as to the Triple Burner (Sanjiao), but we do not focus much on these "thematic" details because this exercise is extremely effective for every organ in the body, not just the Heart.

                            Best regards,
                            Sifu Anthony Korahais
                            www.FlowingZen.com
                            (Click here to learn more about me.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Anthony,

                              From my memory the original Ba Duan Jin actually came from 8 brocades of silk recovered from an ancient tomb and on each brocade of silk the form was drawn. Thus the name Ba Duan Jin (8 brocades of silk). Being eight in number I conclude that there is a connection with the bagua which has 8 directions. I maybe wrong but it does make sense to me.

                              I have not heard that the original Ba Duan Jin has 12 exercises. If it had 12 exercises then the name would be different. In Chinese Ba is eight, Duan is brocade and Jin is silk.

                              When you mentioned 12 it reminds me of the 12 hours day per the Chinese instead of 24 hours. According to the Chinese a full day is divided in 12 "si son" and each "si son" is 2 hours starting from 11.00pm to 1.00am as the first "si son" which is known as "chi si". The 12 "si son" has a direct relationship with the 12 acupuncture meridian points of a human body. This brings us to the art of "tim mark" and I am sure you have heard about "tim mark". "Tim mark" is a very powerful art which can paralyse or kill a person with just a touch by one finger.

                              I agree with you east is where one should face. Having a body of water will be even better. East is controlled by the element "wood" and "wood" needs water. This will enhance the power of the cosmic energy.

                              As I have mentioned in one of my postings Tai Chi is an exact science practised as an art.

                              I also agree that "Lifting the Sky" is a "Triple Burner".

                              Best Regards,
                              Frank

                              Comment

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