I originally posted this as a response to the "Big Bellies" Thread, but would like to start a new thread in the hopes that more participants will take an interest. I hope that's okay with the forum moderators (feel free to delete my post in the other thread if you feel it's redundant).
To all,
First of all, I’m a student of Kostas Danaos, the author of a book called The Magus of Java. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the book, it’s basically the story of a kungfu master named John Chang living in Indonesia. In the book the author describes the methodology of this master’s particular brand of niekung. What’s really interesting is the fact that this master is able to perform a multitude of astounding abilities as a result of his training. There’s a thread about the book on this forum under “book reviews” if you want to know more about the book.
Some time ago I emailed Sifu Wong regarding a rather interesting phenomenon that’s written about in the above book (solid ball of chi in the dantien). Sifu Wong recommended I check out this thread, but I don’t think I explained what I was talking about clearly enough to evoke a thorough response; basically Sifu Wong told me that developing a solid ball of chi in the dantien is like having an energy reservoir in the body that can be used for many different things, but moving it is unnecessary. This wasn’t what I was after, but, in all fairness, I didn’t really go into the details of the methodology of the system I was referring to. I will elaborate on my understanding of this phenomenon in the hopes that if anyone has experience (personal or otherwise) of this or something similar they would be willing to share their experience. I would certainly be interested to hear Darryl’s personal experience, but I hope others will join in as well.
The following is taken from the description in the book, but is not a direct quote:
This methodology has been referred to as the “thunder path.” In the book the author describes how the practitioner of “Mo Pai neikung” (name of John Chang’s lineage) works to cultivate a solid ball of chi in his dantien. The different stages of the practice are divided into levels. At level one he works to fill the dantien with yang chi. At level two he condenses the chi in his dantien, allowing more chi to be stored there. At level 3 the practitioner begins to cut the “cords” that hold the dantien in place. The successful student is than able to free his dantien from its immobile state and move it at will. This phenomenon can be felt by the casual observer who places their hand over the practitioner’s abdomen. From what I’m told it feels like a hard ball inside the abdominal region that moves independently. Once the practitioner has done this (level four) he moves the now mobile dantien down to the energy center located at the perineum (the yin center below the dantien located next to the genitals), thus beginning the process of permanently fusing yin and yang (level five). The force generated by this coupling is explosive and can result in instant death to the unprepared practitioner, from what I understand. I guess about half of the people who have attempted this died trying. The power generated is on a par with actual lightning, thus the phrasing “thunder path.” Does this description fit with the methodology of your (anybody’s) system? If so are you or any of your teachers at a level where you can move your dantien at will?
Here are a few more interesting points that my help clarify the above description and my line of questioning:
According Kostas, John Chang says the Dantien is the first cell formed during the conception of the human fetus. This is the actual, original cell that was formed when the sperm penetrated the egg of every one of us. According to Sifu Chang, this cell remains intact throughout our life time and is located at the end of the umbilical cord where it terminates inside the abdominal cavity. Apparently, this cell, because of its unique, nature can hold vast amounts of energy, as most qi gong practitioners will tell you. This cell or dantien is held in place by six “cords” (what those cords are I don’t know) which the neikung aspirant must sever in order to progress along the thunder path. According to Kostas Danoas, Sifu Chang revealed this information for the first time in modern history in an interview in a Greek martial arts magazine. I’m certainly not making any claim, but I thought it was interesting.
Interestingly, some time ago, John Chang and his senior students agreed to allow a group of researchers to x-ray their abdominal regions. Sifu Chang’s student’s x-rays showed a small mass of circular, irregularly shaped energy below the navel and toward the center line of the body. Sifu Chang’s x-ray (Sifu is well passed level five- not sure how far) showed a perfectly circular, flat disk.
Both of these points suggest that the dantien is a physical part of the body that can be observed and quantified. They also seem to suggest that the dantien functions like a container deep within the abdominal cavity. This goes against the claim of some systems that the dantien and the various chakras or energy centers are part of the “human energy body” and not physical flesh and blood phenomena.
In any case, I hope you all (forum members) feel comfortable sharing on this subject. If there’s any clarification needed, let me know. In addition to the above questions, I’d be particularly interested in any niekung methodology that folks are willing to share. I know that, in all likelihood, some of you practice what are commonly referred to as “closed door” or secret practices, but I would still invite you share what you can about your system and what it is intended to accomplish. I’m curious about yoga, neikung, Qi gong, meditation in general, or any other system regardless of the tradition or culture that it comes from.
All my best, Sean Denty
To all,
First of all, I’m a student of Kostas Danaos, the author of a book called The Magus of Java. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the book, it’s basically the story of a kungfu master named John Chang living in Indonesia. In the book the author describes the methodology of this master’s particular brand of niekung. What’s really interesting is the fact that this master is able to perform a multitude of astounding abilities as a result of his training. There’s a thread about the book on this forum under “book reviews” if you want to know more about the book.
Some time ago I emailed Sifu Wong regarding a rather interesting phenomenon that’s written about in the above book (solid ball of chi in the dantien). Sifu Wong recommended I check out this thread, but I don’t think I explained what I was talking about clearly enough to evoke a thorough response; basically Sifu Wong told me that developing a solid ball of chi in the dantien is like having an energy reservoir in the body that can be used for many different things, but moving it is unnecessary. This wasn’t what I was after, but, in all fairness, I didn’t really go into the details of the methodology of the system I was referring to. I will elaborate on my understanding of this phenomenon in the hopes that if anyone has experience (personal or otherwise) of this or something similar they would be willing to share their experience. I would certainly be interested to hear Darryl’s personal experience, but I hope others will join in as well.
The following is taken from the description in the book, but is not a direct quote:
This methodology has been referred to as the “thunder path.” In the book the author describes how the practitioner of “Mo Pai neikung” (name of John Chang’s lineage) works to cultivate a solid ball of chi in his dantien. The different stages of the practice are divided into levels. At level one he works to fill the dantien with yang chi. At level two he condenses the chi in his dantien, allowing more chi to be stored there. At level 3 the practitioner begins to cut the “cords” that hold the dantien in place. The successful student is than able to free his dantien from its immobile state and move it at will. This phenomenon can be felt by the casual observer who places their hand over the practitioner’s abdomen. From what I’m told it feels like a hard ball inside the abdominal region that moves independently. Once the practitioner has done this (level four) he moves the now mobile dantien down to the energy center located at the perineum (the yin center below the dantien located next to the genitals), thus beginning the process of permanently fusing yin and yang (level five). The force generated by this coupling is explosive and can result in instant death to the unprepared practitioner, from what I understand. I guess about half of the people who have attempted this died trying. The power generated is on a par with actual lightning, thus the phrasing “thunder path.” Does this description fit with the methodology of your (anybody’s) system? If so are you or any of your teachers at a level where you can move your dantien at will?
Here are a few more interesting points that my help clarify the above description and my line of questioning:
According Kostas, John Chang says the Dantien is the first cell formed during the conception of the human fetus. This is the actual, original cell that was formed when the sperm penetrated the egg of every one of us. According to Sifu Chang, this cell remains intact throughout our life time and is located at the end of the umbilical cord where it terminates inside the abdominal cavity. Apparently, this cell, because of its unique, nature can hold vast amounts of energy, as most qi gong practitioners will tell you. This cell or dantien is held in place by six “cords” (what those cords are I don’t know) which the neikung aspirant must sever in order to progress along the thunder path. According to Kostas Danoas, Sifu Chang revealed this information for the first time in modern history in an interview in a Greek martial arts magazine. I’m certainly not making any claim, but I thought it was interesting.
Interestingly, some time ago, John Chang and his senior students agreed to allow a group of researchers to x-ray their abdominal regions. Sifu Chang’s student’s x-rays showed a small mass of circular, irregularly shaped energy below the navel and toward the center line of the body. Sifu Chang’s x-ray (Sifu is well passed level five- not sure how far) showed a perfectly circular, flat disk.
Both of these points suggest that the dantien is a physical part of the body that can be observed and quantified. They also seem to suggest that the dantien functions like a container deep within the abdominal cavity. This goes against the claim of some systems that the dantien and the various chakras or energy centers are part of the “human energy body” and not physical flesh and blood phenomena.
In any case, I hope you all (forum members) feel comfortable sharing on this subject. If there’s any clarification needed, let me know. In addition to the above questions, I’d be particularly interested in any niekung methodology that folks are willing to share. I know that, in all likelihood, some of you practice what are commonly referred to as “closed door” or secret practices, but I would still invite you share what you can about your system and what it is intended to accomplish. I’m curious about yoga, neikung, Qi gong, meditation in general, or any other system regardless of the tradition or culture that it comes from.
All my best, Sean Denty
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