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  • #16
    Originally posted by understanding View Post
    I guess that no one here has ever heard of the Pathgate Institute before? They are a Nyingma Buddhist lineage, but their current Lama is a martial arts grandmaster!

    http://www.pathgate.org/index.php/pa...-arts-theatre/
    I wondered if the Pathgate institution might come up. I would normally say that I "accept nothing based on faith alone" which is the advice given by the Buddha, and endorsed by Sifu. However I will here ask you to accept what I say on faith alone, given that this is the equivalent level to the proof offered by the Pathgate institution. They came up a few years ago on the forum as well by the way. Without giving any names or details, as it is not my right, I know a few people who trained with this institution, and then trained with a proper kungfu school afterwards, who tell me that even the basic kungfu these guys practise is not good, and that the bits where they move people without touching them which is 'fake'.

    I should add the proviso, I have seen Derren Brown (a hypnotist/NLP expert/illusionist/entertainer/performer/trickster for those who don't know) do an expose of this sort of thing on TV, where he was able to strike people using empty force, and they would be "hurt" or "knocked down". He was then able to do the same thing to other people using sheer hypnosis.

    In other words, I don't think these people can break bones, or cause someone to get a black eye, a fat lip or any physical harm from their empty force, ie there is no actual impact, but I do think they can get people to feel pain using hypnosis/NLP/suggestion, and since that phenomenon exists, it is in a way real, ie hypnosis and NLP and suggestion are real I believe.

    I have seen this on Chris Crudelli's "Mind body and kick ass moves" show as well, he put it down to sheer mind control over the students, and reckoned it wouldn't work on anyone who hadn't been brainwashed as the students had.

    Have you ever seen the famous youtube video of the empty force master, all his students fell over when he waved his hands near him. Then they got a muay thai fighter from outside the school to come in. The master waved his arms, nothing happened, and the muay thai fighter steamed in belted him with a few punches in the head, then he felt bad and looked round at the adjudicators ie he was thinking "Have I proved my point now, or do I have to continue beating up this old man?"

    I would also say, whether telekinesis is real or not, I don't know. I don't think it is crazy to investigate it, because if you have seen or read "Men who stare at goats" even the US military deemed it worthy of investigation, as was their duty in case it was real and could be used for or against them. I think the US or Israelis or both also used Uri Geller in the early days. However I personally, having watched and read up on the matter, am convinced that Uri Geller is fake, as I believe those agencies are convinced too. I think I read that his predictions etc have been proven no more effective than if an ordinary person guessed at random. As for bending the spoons, I would love it to be real, but I can't get away from the magician who says this is a trick, and not even a difficult one. He said "I can't prove he doesn't bend spoons with his mind. But I can tell you that if he is bending them with his mind, then he is doing it the hard way."

    Then again if you told me 20 years ago that chi was real, I'd have considered that ludicrous as well, so as the Geordie in Armstrong and Miller says "What do ah knoooow"!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
      I wondered if the Pathgate institution might come up. I would normally say that I "accept nothing based on faith alone" which is the advice given by the Buddha, and endorsed by Sifu. However I will here ask you to accept what I say on faith alone, given that this is the equivalent level to the proof offered by the Pathgate institution. They came up a few years ago on the forum as well by the way. Without giving any names or details, as it is not my right, I know a few people who trained with this institution, and then trained with a proper kungfu school afterwards, who tell me that even the basic kungfu these guys practise is not good, and that the bits where they move people without touching them which is 'fake'.
      Dear Sisook(?),

      Thank you for offering your valuable insight. There were some things that made me question the authenticity of their material, such as there seems to be abundant name dropping of classic Taoist terms without the same clarity that Sigung regularly provides us. Nothing arose as especially alarming, so as per regular courtesy I liked to give them the benefit of doubt. It's stupefying to learn of possible ongoing abuse being sanctioned by such a lofty authority figure!

      A good reminder to keep inquiring, yet skeptical mind.

      Cheers

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Andrew View Post
        I guess many of us (me included) was amazed by the "magic" of people like Uri Geller with his spoon bending and others who claimed to be able to move things with their minds.
        Years ago, my former husband, a friend and me watched a Geller "show" in TV. Uri said we should bring some old still standing watches. We had a pocket watch of my husband's grand-grandfather which stood still for decades. Holding it in our hands, and after some meditation and concentration Geller told us (as far as I remember now) to visualize the watch/es running normally. (All this with closed eyes.)
        After some time we opened our eyes and looked at our pocket watch - and both hands were running. They did it for about four weeks! then it was over again.

        Kind regards,
        Dorit
        ... alles, alles, alles ist doch auf Liebe aufgebaut ..." (Ellen Auerbach, 1997)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by understanding View Post
          Thank you for offering your valuable insight. There were some things that made me question the authenticity of their material, such as there seems to be abundant name dropping of classic Taoist terms without the same clarity that Sigung regularly provides us. Nothing arose as especially alarming, so as per regular courtesy I liked to give them the benefit of doubt. It's stupefying to learn of possible ongoing abuse being sanctioned by such a lofty authority figure!
          Again I have not met anyone from the Pathgate institute, only people who trained with them. The people I am talking about are better fighters than me, and they did train with them for a while so they must have thought there was something to the training, and they must have some martial skill, it is all relative. I wouldn't fight them or challenge them personally, but I would certainly need to see them use this empty force on a non-affiliated muay thai or mma champion before I would believe it. And it would need to do observible physical damage, ie I don't doubt that hypnotists can make people feel pain.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
            Again I have not met anyone from the Pathgate institute, only people who trained with them. The people I am talking about are better fighters than me, and they did train with them for a while so they must have thought there was something to the training, and they must have some martial skill, it is all relative. I wouldn't fight them or challenge them personally, but I would certainly need to see them use this empty force on a non-affiliated muay thai or mma champion before I would believe it. And it would need to do observible physical damage, ie I don't doubt that hypnotists can make people feel pain.
            Dear Sisook,

            I understand that reading second-hand experiences doesn't qualify us to make a proper judgement. For all I know the videos still propose an intriguing possibility for doing extra-ordinary feats, and "Fa Qi" and "Fa Shen" could still be real skills even if no one in the Pathgate could actually demonstrate them. Many "ifs" right there.

            Allegations of abusive conduct are very unfortunate. If true, then we should pray for the reconciliation of damage done and not get swayed with the bad news. If untrue, then we can likewise pray for reconciliation and remain in calm abiding.

            Getting entangled with speculation is no good in the lack of direct evidence. Let's keep the inquiry open and hope that in the future we can justly certify whether Sifu Yeung has real chi kung prowess or not.

            Cheers

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by understanding View Post
              Dear Sisook,

              I understand that reading second-hand experiences doesn't qualify us to make a proper judgement. For all I know the videos still propose an intriguing possibility for doing extra-ordinary feats, and "Fa Qi" and "Fa Shen" could still be real skills even if no one in the Pathgate could actually demonstrate them. Many "ifs" right there.

              Allegations of abusive conduct are very unfortunate. If true, then we should pray for the reconciliation of damage done and not get swayed with the bad news. If untrue, then we can likewise pray for reconciliation and remain in calm abiding.

              Getting entangled with speculation is no good in the lack of direct evidence. Let's keep the inquiry open and hope that in the future we can justly certify whether Sifu Yeung has real chi kung prowess or not.

              Cheers
              Hi Understanding,

              Just for clarity, I have not heard any allegations of "abuse" or "abusive conduct" with the connotations those words imply, I am not sure if you use these as a figure of speech or if you have read something to that effect, but I have never read or heard anything like that, only heard that the empty force, in their case, in the opinion of my acquaintances, is not real.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
                Hi Understanding,

                Just for clarity, I have not heard any allegations of "abuse" or "abusive conduct" with the connotations those words imply, I am not sure if you use these as a figure of speech or if you have read something to that effect, but I have never read or heard anything like that, only heard that the empty force, in their case, in the opinion of my acquaintances, is not real.
                Dear Sisook,

                http://www.tfd.com/abuse
                n. (ə-byo͞os′) 1. a. Improper or excessive use; misuse: abuse of authority; drug abuse.
                This might merely be an opinion of categorization and hair splitting between us, or maybe it's an cultural barrier for me in understanding the English word, but I consider deception a severe form of abuse, especially so if it comes from an institute that claims to be a moral authority. Trust just might be the most valuable commodity we can have. If Pathgate claims to teach empty force, but fails to deliver that promise and even covers it with fake demonstrations, then that would be deceptive behavior in my book. Since teachings are usually given in exchange of money, then calling it a fraud wouldn't be a long shot either.

                Hopefully this makes things clear and I didn't extrapolate anything out of proportion. Otherwise, feel free to point my error(s)!

                Cheers
                Last edited by understanding; 2nd January 2016, 05:11 PM. Reason: clarity

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                • #23
                  The closest I have come to experimentation with telekinesis was using a combination of some orgonite that I made and some psionics devices that Crazy Uncle Chuck has plans for on his website. I'm not going to link to them, but I found them to be quite draining on me, and quite pointless. They also felt wrong to me. I have since removed them, and half of the orgonite, and opted for more traditional energy protections on my house.

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