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I did Chi Kung in a forceful manner - Deep intense cleansing

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  • I did Chi Kung in a forceful manner - Deep intense cleansing

    Hello,

    Many many years ago I read a book called "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. I didn't know anything about chi or meditation. There was a section in the book called "The Inner Body" (if I remember correclty). In it,there were instructions on how to "feel the inner body". You just have to close your eyes and feel sensations in your feet, hands and so on. I remember it was incredibly difficult the first times but I managed to do it.
    I believe this is a form of inducing chi flow in the body, or a form of Chi Kung. The first months I got many of the benefits people report doing Chi Kung.

    One day, I started feeling the body as I was used to, and I stumbled upon a huge energy blockage in the chest area. There was no way of feeling the physical sensations in the chest. So I tried and I tried. Then, I made the terrible mistake of forcing it. I just concentrated as hard as I could so I could feel the chest area. Next thing, I started to feel a painful sensation in the solar plexus. Long story short (there are many details but I won't get into that), the next 6 months I had those painful sensations in the chest. It was like I took off a plug and all the energy blockages in my body started to concentrate in the solar plexus. Everytime that happened, I would burp and it would be released.

    You could think that was great, but the THING is that everytime my body released an energy blockage I would feel a tingling sensations in my muscles, very hard to describe, no the usual tingling sensation Chi Kung practicioners feel when there is chi flowing. It was painful.

    When it all ended, my body was left in a terrible shape. It was like I lost lots of muscle mass. When I look myself at the mirror my muscles have the same shape and size but they are less dense (?) and they are flabby. I got really skinny and my skin looks really pale. I lost my libido. Literally I couldn't get it up for years. Some months later I started to gain a lot of weight, my metabolism got really slow. And to this day it is very difficult to lose weight, even with diet and exercise.

    The benefits are that my body feels incredibly relaxed. There is a sense of wellbeing that is hard to describe. All my emotional and physical pains disappeared. I never ever get sick.

    The problem is that I want to recover my shape. I look really bad. And I want my libido back.

    I have two theories:

    1. My body lost muscle mass.
    2. My body lost chi.

    What do you think about this? Why literally nowhere is mentioned this could happen?

    Why does it take some form of energy (chi?) to clear a blockage?

    How can I recover faster?

    I really don't understand what happened.

  • #2
    Dear Peacekeeper,

    Welcome to our Virtual Kwoon! You may properly introduce yourself at the new members section if you wish to have us know you better.

    Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    What do you think about this?
    You were both unwise to alter the instructions you had read and unlucky for persisting in forcing practice until it made you feel sick. The lucky part, for which I truly am glad, is that you didn't become any worse in terms of health, although I would say that you have clearly lost a portion of your vitality. The good thing is that it most likely isn't permanent and can be recovered with high-level Chi Kung as an example.

    Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    Why literally nowhere is mentioned this could happen?
    Deviation in spiritual practices is seldom spoken about because genuine teachers transmit their direct instructions to deserving students personally and for their particular needs at that time. This is the traditional way. Hence the kind masters can observe the progress of their students and give intervening instructions if a student strays away from the correct path.

    Mr. Tolle may know enough about spiritual awakening to try to teach it for others, but I suspect his knowledge would be insufficient to deal with or understand energetic deviations. Personally, I find it outrageous that many books and proclaimed masters are not informing their audience enough of the dangers of self-learning and what bad practice may bring.

    How people deviate can take many forms according to their constitution and faulty practice, so it would be impractical to narrow these down to something as specific as your chest sensations.

    Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    Why does it take some form of energy (chi?) to clear a blockage?
    You shouldn't mind these kind of intellectual questions now. You should find a healer who actually understands your condition and can help you recover and practice safely.

    Anyway, the philosophy of Chi Kung healing is widely discussed in our Grandmaster's books and Questions and Answers series.

    Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    How can I recover faster?
    Learning the proper skills of self-healing from a qualified instructor or healer of our school is an excellent way to begin.

    With sincere respect,
    Olli
    Last edited by understanding; 13th November 2017, 06:23 PM. Reason: additional thoughts, some grammar, clarity

    Comment


    • #3
      Greetings,

      Short answer:

      "Learn Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung from a certified Shaolin Wahnam instructor."

      Since you've come to the online Shaolin Wahnam Kwoon, that is the best advice I personally would offer you. Cosmos Chi Kung is an excellent healing art and fully capable of re-harmonizing one's energetic system.

      Originally posted by Peacekeeper
      I really don't understand what happened.
      Like Olli mentioned, this is one of the dangers of practicing without the guidance of a qualified teacher.

      Fortunately you became aware that you made the mistake of using force in your internal process. Inner work, whether at the emotional, energetic, mental or spiritual level, should always be done gently, without forcing anything. People might find this challenging these days because they want results immediately and think that using force will expedite the process, but it's not true.

      So, to reiterate, the best help you can get from Shaolin Wahnam is to learn Chi Kung from one of the instructors, as practicing it will flush away past mistakes and bring you back to good health.
      Love, and do what you will.

      - St. Augustine

      Comment


      • #4
        Dear Olli,

        Thank you for your response.

        Originally posted by understanding View Post
        You were both unwise to alter the instructions you had read and unlucky for persisting in forcing practice until it made you feel sick. The lucky part, for which I truly am glad, is that you didn't become any worse in terms of health, although I would say that you have clearly lost a portion of your vitality. The good thing is that it most likely isn't permanent and can be recovered with high-level Chi Kung as an example.
        I was very young, stupid and desperate and I was doing the practice without proper guidance. I never could have imagined this could be so dangerous.

        Yes. That's how it feels. My health has never been better. As I said, I literally never get sick, I can eat whatever I want without problems and I have no more pains in my body.

        The vitality thing is the problem. I feel weak -but not tired- all the time. Very low energy, although it is very stable, meaning it never diminishes.

        I do believe is not permanent because I can feel I have recovered this couple of years. For example, the libido was inexistent the first years and now it is just low.

        Originally posted by understanding View Post
        Deviation in spiritual practices is seldom spoken about because genuine teachers transmit their direct instructions to deserving students personally and for their particular needs at that time. This is the traditional way. Hence the kind masters can observe the progress of their students and give intervening instructions if a student strays away from the correct path.

        Mr. Tolle may know enough about spiritual awakening to try to teach it for others, but I suspect his knowledge would be insufficient to deal with or understand energetic deviations. Personally, I find it outrageous that many books and proclaimed masters are not informing their audience enough of the dangers of self-learning and what bad practice may bring.
        There is not even one warning that this could be dangerous and I didn't know that. They really need to change that in upcoming editions.

        Originally posted by understanding View Post
        You shouldn't mind these kind of intellectual questions now. You should find a healer who actually understands your condition and can help you recover and practice safely.
        I am taking Chi Kung classes with a master.

        Is there a way to "recharge" or replentish lost chi? Beacuse I am abosolutely certain that my chi is flowing perfectly. I just need to recover my vitality.


        Originally posted by understanding View Post
        Learning the proper skills of self-healing from a qualified instructor or healer of our school is an excellent way to begin.

        I am living in Argentina, where I could go?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello Andrew

          Originally posted by Andrew R View Post
          Greetings,

          Short answer:

          "Learn Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung from a certified Shaolin Wahnam instructor."

          Since you've come to the online Shaolin Wahnam Kwoon, that is the best advice I personally would offer you. Cosmos Chi Kung is an excellent healing art and fully capable of re-harmonizing one's energetic system.
          I wish I could, but I live in Argentina. Apparently, there are no certified instructors here.

          Thanks for your response.
          Last edited by Peacekeeper; 13th November 2017, 07:10 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Peacekeeper
            I am taking Chi Kung classes with a master.
            If the master is qualified, then the chi kung you are learning should be enough to help you recover fully.

            I wish I could, but I live in Argentina. Apparently, there are no certified instructors here.
            As an analogy, you've decided you want to travel to the beach, so you check the shortest road to get there and find that it's closed, so you give up on going to the beach before checking other roads. There are many other ways to the beach!

            There might not be an instructor in Argentina, but there are instructors in Venezuela, Ecuador and Colombia. If I were in your position I would look into what it would take to learn from one of them. Better yet, take the intensive chi kung course with Grandmaster Wong in Malaysia next year; he usually teaches it twice per year, once in Penang and once near Kota Kinabalu.

            Many of us in Shaolin Wahnam, myself included, have traveled to other countries and continents to learn either chi kung, kung fu or taijiquan and have also saved money until able to do so. So don't give up, everybody here wants to see you succeed! Putting in the time and money to learn genuine Shaolin arts is one of the best choices you can make for yourself.
            Love, and do what you will.

            - St. Augustine

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Andrew R View Post
              If the master is qualified, then the chi kung you are learning should be enough to help you recover fully.
              I don't think he's qualified, but he's a good teacher. The problem is that we are doing exercises to help induce chi flow and cleansing. Apparently, from what I have read, I have to "build" chi. Quoting Sifu Wong's words: "In the next stage of building, the main purpose is to increase vitality, with the result that you will find zest in your work and play".

              It is the next step. I am totally certain my chi is flowing perfectly.

              I have two books from Sifu Wong. "The Art of Chi Kung" and "Chi Kung for Health and Vitality". Which exercises could I show my teacher to help me build chi?

              Originally posted by Andrew R View Post
              As an analogy, you've decided you want to travel to the beach, so you check the shortest road to get there and find that it's closed, so you give up on going to the beach before checking other roads. There are many other ways to the beach!

              There might not be an instructor in Argentina, but there are instructors in Venezuela, Ecuador and Colombia. If I were in your position I would look into what it would take to learn from one of them. Better yet, take the intensive chi kung course with Grandmaster Wong in Malaysia next year; he usually teaches it twice per year, once in Penang and once near Kota Kinabalu.

              Many of us in Shaolin Wahnam, myself included, have traveled to other countries and continents to learn either chi kung, kung fu or taijiquan and have also saved money until able to do so. So don't give up, everybody here wants to see you succeed! Putting in the time and money to learn genuine Shaolin arts is one of the best choices you can make for yourself.
              I will consider your advice. I also have to save some money for the moment.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
                I don't think he's qualified, but he's a good teacher. The problem is that we are doing exercises to help induce chi flow and cleansing. Apparently, from what I have read, I have to "build" chi. Quoting Sifu Wong's words: "In the next stage of building, the main purpose is to increase vitality, with the result that you will find zest in your work and play".

                It is the next step. I am totally certain my chi is flowing perfectly.

                I have two books from Sifu Wong. "The Art of Chi Kung" and "Chi Kung for Health and Vitality". Which exercises could I show my teacher to help me build chi?
                This is very backward logic. If you don't think he's qualified to teach qigong (and by this, I mean in terms of skill at teaching and accomplishment in the skill of qigong), then he can't be a good teacher. By your very attitude, you disqualify him. Your teacher must be far enough ahead of you in what he's teaching for you to be fully confident in him safely guiding you.

                From your description, your issue is not pressing, and you have fortunately avoided the serious consequences that could have occurred. Be grateful for your good fortune and learn from it.

                For what it is worth, if you are truly in the state you say you are after such an ordeal, then your teacher is likely very capable. Continue just with the cleansing exercises until you can see Sifu or one of his healers. Cleansing exercises will cause a level of building without your interference. If you are not as healthy as you say you are, and begin building exercise without someone who knows what they're doing leading the way, you could cause further damage.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alex McLeod View Post
                  This is very backward logic. If you don't think he's qualified to teach qigong (and by this, I mean in terms of skill at teaching and accomplishment in the skill of qigong), then he can't be a good teacher. By your very attitude, you disqualify him. Your teacher must be far enough ahead of you in what he's teaching for you to be fully confident in him safely guiding you.
                  Sorry, I confused the word "qualified" with "certified", as he's not an official instructor from Shaolin Wahnam. He's very qualified.

                  Originally posted by Alex McLeod View Post
                  From your description, your issue is not pressing, and you have fortunately avoided the serious consequences that could have occurred. Be grateful for your good fortune and learn from it.
                  I had serious consequences. It's been 7 years of living with my energy totally depleted. And the recovery is painfuly slow.

                  Originally posted by Alex McLeod View Post
                  For what it is worth, if you are truly in the state you say you are after such an ordeal, then your teacher is likely very capable. Continue just with the cleansing exercises until you can see Sifu or one of his healers. Cleansing exercises will cause a level of building without your interference. If you are not as healthy as you say you are, and begin building exercise without someone who knows what they're doing leading the way, you could cause further damage.
                  Will do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Peacekeeper,

                    What style of chi kung does your instructor teach?
                    Love, and do what you will.

                    - St. Augustine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Andrew R View Post
                      Hi Peacekeeper,

                      What style of chi kung does your instructor teach?
                      Hello. I haven't asked.

                      PD: I forgot to mention. I'm doing sexual abstinence so I can recover more quickly.
                      Last edited by Peacekeeper; 14th November 2017, 01:34 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dear Peacekeeper,

                        Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
                        Is there a way to "recharge" or replentish lost chi? Beacuse I am abosolutely certain that my chi is flowing perfectly. I just need to recover my vitality.
                        Again this is a typically intellectual question. You shouldn't perform self-diagnoses, but just leave it to a competent Chinese Medicine expert who can examine you in person.

                        The great thing about any high-level Chi Kung is that it works wonderfully regardless of your issues. You don't have to know anything, but just do it.

                        Like it was mentioned by my Sisook Alex, cleansing will also help you build. Usually people with health problems of any kind (including lost vitality) should begin Chi Kung gently with the emphasis on cleansing. This will help you get a faster result.

                        Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
                        Sorry, I confused the word "qualified" with "certified", as he's not an official instructor from Shaolin Wahnam. He's very qualified.

                        [...]

                        It's been 7 years of living with my energy totally depleted. And the recovery is painfuly slow.
                        How long have you practiced regularly (at least once a day) with your current master?

                        You are complaining about the slowness of recovery. I have personal account that serious deviation experiences with lots of pain and many symptoms can take long time to ease up even with excellent teachers and their wonderful teaching, but I would conservatively estimate that it shouldn't take you more than 18 months to have near complete recovery. Again this is based on my personal experience, but please understand that I am just a fairly new student and not really qualified to give proper estimations.

                        Practicing absistence as you mentioned in your latest post should help you recover faster.

                        With sincere respect,
                        Olli
                        Last edited by understanding; 14th November 2017, 05:27 AM. Reason: again grammar and clarity :)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dear Olli,

                          Originally posted by understanding View Post
                          Dear Peacekeeper,

                          Again this is a typically intellectual question. You shouldn't perform self-diagnoses, but just leave it to a competent Chinese Medicine expert who can examine you in person.
                          I'm going to look for someone here. If anyone knows where I could go in Argentina, it would be of great help.


                          Originally posted by understanding View Post
                          How long have you practiced regularly (at least once a day) with your current master?
                          I'm pretty new to Chi Kung. I didn't know it existed until this year and it is difficult to find a master in the place where I live, so I've been practicing for a month.

                          I always though energy was something spiritual, so I read countless books on spirituality to find a cure but I was unsuccesful. Eventually I gave up and went on with my life.

                          Originally posted by understanding View Post
                          You are complaining about the slowness of recovery. I have personal account that serious deviation experiences with lots of pain and many symptoms can take long time to ease up even with excellent teachers and their wonderful teaching, but I would conservatively estimate that it shouldn't take you more than 18 months to have near complete recovery. Again this is based on my personal experience, but please understand that I am just a fairly new student and not really qualified to give proper estimations.
                          I think this either was a very serious deviation or my energy body was really in a really bad shape, because it's been 7 years and I haven't recovered half of my vitality.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dear Peacekeeper,

                            Originally posted by Peacekeeper View Post
                            I'm pretty new to Chi Kung. I didn't know it existed until this year and it is difficult to find a master in the place where I live, so I've been practicing for a month.
                            It's usual that it takes 3-6 months before the momentum of anyone's new Chi Kung practice starts bringing breakthrough benefits. Personal Chi Kung practice is not an immediate magic bullet, so it will take time regardless of whichever tradition or master you receive teachings from.

                            Are you not satisfied with your current master or the benefits of his teachings, or why are you here asking questions from us? Patience and perseverence are essentials in any internal art, and shopping for masters may not be beneficial to your recovery. I think I have read somewhere that it's good to give three months of trial to any teaching if it brings good results and presents no contraindications, and it's often good to examine a master's students to see what kind of results you might expect.

                            A powerful Chi Kung healer such as Sifu Andrew might be able to help you with remote healing (a Skype session) if you are looking for accelerated recovery. However, the healing will be holistic and cannot guarantee any particular outcome. I did a healing session with him on 25th September where he worked among other things on my solar plexus which really relieved me of deep blockages. He has an excellent reputation in our school, and based on my own experience I can also warmly recommend him.

                            With sincere respect,
                            Olli

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by understanding View Post
                              Dear Peacekeeper,



                              It's usual that it takes 3-6 months before the momentum of anyone's new Chi Kung practice starts bringing breakthrough benefits. Personal Chi Kung practice is not an immediate magic bullet, so it will take time regardless of whichever tradition or master you receive teachings from.
                              Yes, I admit I'm being a little bit impatient. We have just begun the training and I been practicing roughly 2 times a week, so I can't expect great results. I'm beginning to practice daily, as I'm taking this more seriously.

                              Originally posted by understanding View Post
                              Are you not satisfied with your current master or the benefits of his teachings, or why are you here asking questions from us? Patience and perseverence are essentials in any internal art, and shopping for masters may not be beneficial to your recovery. I think I have read somewhere that it's good to give three months of trial to any teaching if it brings good results and presents no contraindications, and it's often good to examine a master's students to see what kind of results you might expect.
                              Honestly, I'm a bit...shy when it comes to telling my personal problems to people I know.

                              Originally posted by understanding View Post
                              A powerful Chi Kung healer such as Sifu Andrew might be able to help you with remote healing (a Skype session) if you are looking for accelerated recovery. However, the healing will be holistic and cannot guarantee any particular outcome. I did a healing session with him on 25th September where he worked among other things on my solar plexus which really relieved me of deep blockages. He has an excellent reputation in our school, and based on my own experience I can also warmly recommend him.

                              With sincere respect,
                              Olli
                              I will take that as an option.

                              Thanks for your response.

                              Comment

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