Becoming Spiritually Mature

[DarkCosmoz]

Greetings all,

I would like to start this topic concerning spiritual maturation.

It is my opinion that the majority of the people in this world are asleep and ignorant to what our world really is like.

Many do not realize the intense suffering that goes on in this world. Many also do not realize the intense bliss that can be achieved. Importantly, many do not understand that there are spiritual laws like karma at work.

We create our own suffering and sorrows because we cannot grasp at the divinity that is already innate. We constantly strive for material wealth and will hurt others to get ahead. We lust for attention and physical love, but will often selfishly not give it back in return.


I would like to present two facts for consideration:

1.

With the exception of a spiritually elite few, most of us on this planet are emotionally immature.

In your life, I am sure you have witnessed adults throwing temper tantrums to get his/her way. Work colleagues and friends may enjoy tattletaling and gossiping about others shortcomings, faults and personal life. You may know some who love being the center of attention and fuss. These traits are commonly exhibited by young children.

Today, these childish traits are usually masked in rather complex but socially acceptable ways in everyday situations.


2.

Many people do not really bother to go beyond the basic concepts of religion, politics, media and so forth. Many people do not realize how much of their life is controlled by such powerful entities.

America continues to influence practically the entire world with its religious and political beliefs, and it can continue to do so with its military bases stationed around the world. However, in my opinion, this is slowly changing as we enter into a new era, and the balance of power shifts to Asia.

When you see the world for what it is, you can sometimes be so horrified and shocked at what you see.

Becoming spiritually mature means accepting the world as is with love. This is very hard for me to do. Most of us see the world through colored lens, but we have to strip away all the fluff and just see the world as it is.

Accept the world for what it is. Accept that racism continues to exists, that wars are constantly fought, that childish emotions plague us all, and that spiritual laws like karma is real.

This is painful, and I have come to this painful realization recently during one of my spiritual endeavors. It truly takes a beating on the ego, but I think this is necessary to grow. We have to shift out of our normal comfort zone.

Best regards,
Stephen

[AlexBaranosky]

Stephen,

All the bad in the world could never outweigh the good. The bad things are like pebbles under the footsteps of God.

The spiritual world never leaves us behind. God is here taking an active part in the way the world works.

I'm sure this is God's plan. You may not see the plan because of your current chosen perspective, but this doesn't mean that everything isn't just as it should be. Which isn't to say that everything is perfect. No, but everything is perfect-ing. And God can't make us spiritually mature. Only we can, just like your parents can't make you mature, only you can. But your parents can guide the way, right? And this is a good thing, right? Could anyone really ever be mature who just does exactly as they are told?

Same thing with the world.

All the Best,
Alex

[DarkCosmoz]

Hi Alex,

All the bad in the world could never outweigh the good. The bad things are like pebbles under the footsteps of God.

The spiritual world never leaves us behind. God is here taking an active part in the way the world works.

Agreed.

I'm sure this is God's plan. You may not see the plan because of your current chosen perspective, but this doesn't mean that everything isn't just as it should be.

Also agreed. Everything is currently the way they are because of past karma. We are all born into certain countries, race, gender, parents, wealth class, etc. because we have certain karma to work out. But what's saddening to me is when people don't learn to grow out of this karmic cycle.

If person X is killed today in the Middle East by person Y, person Y in the future will have to get back at X to balance. But then, the retribution cycle starts over. The only way to break it is by love and forgiving. Not many seem to get that.

No, but everything is perfect-ing.

Yes, I agree, through karma.

And God can't make us spiritually mature. Only we can, just like your parents can't make you mature, only you can. But your parents can guide the way, right? And this is a good thing, right? Could anyone really ever be mature who just does exactly as they are told?

Well I guess that depends. As an example, if we experience an immature kundalini awakening that we are not ready for, we are in a sense being forced by God to mature quickly and cleanse the past emotional and physical pain we have deeply embedded in our subconscious.

I guess my point is that maturation is painful. But growing up always is.


Best regards,
Stephen

[AlexBaranosky]

I guess my point is that maturation is painful. But growing up always is.

Expanding into any new area generally comes with some discomfort. Like learning to ride a bike, or learning a new programming language, or taking a new class in school, etc... But this isn't pain. Any pain that comes, comes from NOT expanding when everything in your life says you must.

For example, you do not make enough money. It may be uncomfortable for you to learn a new trade, but it will be painful if you choose to ignore it and not expand into the new you (with a new career) that life has in store.

Or say you feel uncomfortable with females. It may be uncomfortable for you to learn to meet women, but it will be painful for you to not expand yourself into the new version of you who can meet a woman and be in love.

Etc...

All the Best,
Alex

[AlexBaranosky]

All the bad in the world could never outweigh the good. The bad things are like pebbles under the footsteps of God.

I wanted to expand on this line from my first post.

This morning I was reflecting on this and I thought just how much good outweighs bad.

I thought, "I wake up, and smile because my bed is soft and I'm in love. I'm thankful someone invented the alarm clock. In the past they didn't have alarm clocks to make sure I was always on time. I go into the kitchen. Hmmm it is filled with foods, of every kind, just one of which ALONE is filled with wonderful flavors. But I don't just have one food, I have hundreds. I then reflect on my body. Isn't it amazing this biochemical machine with billions of living, moving parts that does millions of little actions every moment to stay in homeostasis... and I don't have a CLUE how it all works. But it does! And still more. Because I'm going to work soon, where I have an opportunity to add benefit to the world while programming, which by the way I love doing. And not just any programming, but a great job with great coworkers."

Etc...

[Charles David]

Stephen,

I suggest that you stop looking at the world in such a negative way. I recently heard a quote I would like to share.


We do not see the world as it is; we see it as we are.

--Anais Nin



To which I add: Be well and the world is well.


Shaolin Salutations,

Charles

[Guest]

Many do not realize the intense suffering that goes on in this world. Many also do not realize the intense bliss that can be achieved.

To which I would add: many of the 'spiritual elite' do not realize their duty to challenge the suffering in this world and alleviate it for others to find God.

With the exception of a spiritually elite few, most of us on this planet are emotionally immature.

Even the so-called 'spiritual elite' can be emotionally immature, because even they have to deal with trials and temptations.

Many people do not really bother to go beyond the basic concepts of religion, politics, media and so forth. Many people do not realize how much of their life is controlled by such powerful entities.

And therefore is it not the duty and responsibility of those who can see clearly to work on Earth to free their trapped brethren?

And God can't make us spiritually mature. Only we can, just like your parents can't make you mature, only you can. But your parents can guide the way, right? And this is a good thing, right? Could anyone really ever be mature who just does exactly as they are told?

Well I guess that depends. As an example, if we experience an immature kundalini awakening that we are not ready for, we are in a sense being forced by God to mature quickly and cleanse the past emotional and physical pain we have deeply embedded in our subconscious.

Immature kundalini awakenings happen when you try to take Heaven by force. God never forces you to do anything and He never gives you more than you can handle. The path to God, the path back to Him that God wants us to walk, is a gradual path.

No, but everything is perfect-ing.

Yes, I agree, through karma.

Not through karma, but through free choice. Karma is a way for you to learn your lessons and come closer to God. As such, it’s a blessing, not a curse. But ultimately things are perfect-ing through constantly choosing God over that which is not of God.

Becoming spiritually mature means accepting the world as is with love … Accept the world for what it is.

No, this isn’t love. Did Jesus accept the world for what it is? Did Gautama Buddha accept the world what it is? Did Zarathustra? Mother Theresa? Gandhi? Martin Luther King?

True love sees clearly what is real and unreal. True love sees clearly that which is good and bad, light and dark, of God and not of God – and then seeks to set all life free from the bad, from the darkness, from that which is not of God.

It is true that the bad things are like pebbles under God’s feet, but God needs to work through people to bring His feet to the Earth. There are many people who, maybe unknowingly, are trying to stop God from working in the world – be it through fear, or pride, or some other blockage. True love brings God to Earth.

[Alex]

I wanted to expand on this line from my first post.

This morning I was reflecting on this and I thought just how much good outweighs bad.

I thought, "I wake up, and smile because my bed is soft and I'm in love. I'm thankful someone invented the alarm clock. In the past they didn't have alarm clocks to make sure I was always on time. I go into the kitchen. Hmmm it is filled with foods, of every kind, just one of which ALONE is filled with wonderful flavors. But I don't just have one food, I have hundreds. I then reflect on my body. Isn't it amazing this biochemical machine with billions of living, moving parts that does millions of little actions every moment to stay in homeostasis... and I don't have a CLUE how it all works. But it does! And still more. Because I'm going to work soon, where I have an opportunity to add benefit to the world while programming, which by the way I love doing. And not just any programming, but a great job with great coworkers."

Etc...

This is gold. It's inspired me to think more like this. Perception is reality. We don't have to wait to go to heaven, we can experience it now.

[DarkCosmoz]

I suggest that you stop looking at the world in such a negative way.

I am not really being negative... it's just kind of a shock and wake up call to me. It does really beat your ego.

Did this not also happen to the Buddha when he saw so much pain and suffering in this world? He just renounced all his worldly riches to help with our salvation.


--------------

To which I would add: many of the 'spiritual elite' do not realize their duty to challenge the suffering in this world and alleviate it for others to find God.

Even the so-called 'spiritual elite' can be emotionally immature, because even they have to deal with trials and temptations.

Agreed. There are many stories of 'spiritually' powerful gurus in Asia and India who have abused their power due to an ego trip. By spiritually powerful, I mean those who are able to affect immediate changes to a person's karma or transfer chi, etc.

And therefore is it not the duty and responsibility of those who can see clearly to work on Earth to free their trapped brethren?

Yes. I wish to be powerful enough one day to do so.

Immature kundalini awakenings happen when you try to take Heaven by force. God never forces you to do anything and He never gives you more than you can handle. The path to God, the path back to Him that God wants us to walk, is a gradual path.

I may have to disagree here. Near death experiences, car accidents, trauma to the tailbone, pregnancy, Chi Kung, and past spiritual endeavors can all release kundalini when the karmic time is ripe. The person, depending on the level he is at, may or or may not be ready. There are certainly ways like in Tantra to force the energy awake, but that is usually done under a master's guidance.

Not through karma, but through free choice. Karma is a way for you to learn your lessons and come closer to God. As such, it’s a blessing, not a curse. But ultimately things are perfect-ing through constantly choosing God over that which is not of God.

Thanks for the correction.

No, this isn’t love. Did Jesus accept the world for what it is? Did Gautama Buddha accept the world what it is? Did Zarathustra? Mother Theresa? Gandhi? Martin Luther King?

In a sense, yes. They accepted the world's imperfections and decided to help due to their unconditional love. They also did this because they were on a much higher level than us.

I believe terrorists in one way or another also see the world as is, but they don't accept it at all. Instead of reacting with love, they destroy.

[Guest]

And therefore is it not the duty and responsibility of those who can see clearly to work on Earth to free their trapped brethren?

Yes. I wish to be powerful enough one day to do so.

No, this isn’t love. Did Jesus accept the world for what it is? Did Gautama Buddha accept the world what it is? Did Zarathustra? Mother Theresa? Gandhi? Martin Luther King?

In a sense, yes. They accepted the world's imperfections and decided to help due to their unconditional love. They also did this because they were on a much higher level than us.

Well, I think they didn't accept imperfections, because they knew that they were not of God, and they could be overcome by God. They saw very clearly what was real and unreal, by the grace of God, and then followed God's Will to challenge the imperfections and lift them into the perfection of God.

You say that wish to be powerful enough one day to help others. Stephen, don't you know about the power of prayer? And don't you know that it is God in you that does the work, not you yourself? How does it make sense that God can only work through those who are 'spiritually advanced'? God works through the doubtful, the weak, and the tired as well. Purity is not attainment - it is the pure motivation and intent, even if you feel you have lots of issues.

All that is needed for your to help others is a sincere heart before God, a sincere heart that says, "God, please help them. If it is your Will, then please use me to help them. I am willing to do Your Will, whatever it may be, to help them and to help myself grow closer to You." Just open yourself to the Divine, open your heart to the Divine, or whatever divine figure you feel close to. Surrender. Accept the Divine's love, forgiveness, and it's Will. Ask for help and guidance, and it will be given.

[AlexBaranosky]

And what's more. You don't have to ask God for help. Everything in the world has God flowing through it already. Even if noone asked, the God force would be doing what it does best: Goodness.

[Guest]

And what's more. You don't have to ask God for help. Everything in the world has God flowing through it already. Even if noone asked, the God force would be doing what it does best: Goodness.

Hi Alex,

Not everything in the world has God flowing through it already. What about evil? What about Stalin and Hitler? They were, in my opinion, individuals completely opposed to God. There was no God flowing through them. In fact, they did everything in their power to stamp out God in the world.

If we didn't have to ask God for help, why did Jesus teach us to pray? Why did he say "Ask, and it shall be given"? Why does the Bible say, "Thou shalt decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways" (Job 22)? We do need to ask God for help, because God has all the power, but he doesn't have the authority. We need to give him the authority; we need to make free will choices to allow God into our lives. This has been my repeated experience when I've been in trouble, and it was only when I asked God for help that God was able to act. We are (blessed) to be co-workers and co-creators with God (1 Cor 3). "All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

It's yu-wei and wu-wei - asking for help is yu-wei, letting God help you is wu-wei. You can't just have wu-wei without the yu-wei.

God can act in our lives without us praying or asking for help, but that's usually because part of us IS asking for help, deep down.

[Anton S.]

Dear DarkCosmoz,

Suffering is the First Holy Truth of Buddhism. It is good to notice the truth.

For example:
People around you are hungry. They seek for cookies.

You have a choice between thinking and consequently acting:

a. they are doing fine - do nothing
b. they are stupid - tell them how bad and irrelevant cookies are - tell them about their immature mind habits
c. accept that "people want cookies" - go get some instructions and ingredients, bake and to share them with those people.

What do you think is the best choice to reduce hunger?

It is the same with people who seek happiness and a peaceful mind.
They are merely unhappy.

It is easy to reduce suffering:
Bake happiness and peace and share.

[AlexBaranosky]

Hi Alex,

Not everything in the world has God flowing through it already. What about evil? What about Stalin and Hitler? They were, in my opinion, individuals completely opposed to God. There was no God flowing through them. In fact, they did everything in their power to stamp out God in the world.

They did everything in their power, and yet it was not enough. It can never be enough because evil can never last enduringly, because evil is not the nature of humans and not the nature of the world we live in.

One can push and push and push, and TRY to instate their evils plans into the world, and they will NEVER LAST, ever.

Evil is something to be avoided. But not something to be feared, or something to give undue respect to.

In this discussion evil equates to essentially anything that isn't Good. It's not even a moral judgment. In fact evil is part of the growth process. Through exploring what doesn't work for us we choose that which does work for us.

If we didn't have to ask God for help, why did Jesus teach us to pray? Why did he say "Ask, and it shall be given"? Why does the Bible say, "Thou shalt decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways" (Job 22)? We do need to ask God for help, because God has all the power, but he doesn't have the authority. We need to give him the authority; we need to make free will choices to allow God into our lives. This has been my repeated experience when I've been in trouble, and it was only when I asked God for help that God was able to act. We are (blessed) to be co-workers and co-creators with God (1 Cor 3). "All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

It's yu-wei and wu-wei - asking for help is yu-wei, letting God help you is wu-wei. You can't just have wu-wei without the yu-wei.

God can act in our lives without us praying or asking for help, but that's usually because part of us IS asking for help, deep down.

The God I refer to is a spiritual principle, not a religious God. Just for clarification. None of my comments come from reading the Bible, instead they come from my own life experience. [Though I have nothing against the Bible ]

There is nothing wrong with asking God for help. However, there is not a NEED. Because Spirit is in touch with each of us on an intimate, ever-so-detailed way. (God knows all the hairs on our heads, for example)

Thus God helping us is natural. It just happens as a matter of course.

Of course, for some asking God may be natural, in which case enjoy your spiritual practice(s), askings of God, prayer, etc. !

This is why we enjoy the flow of life. Through enjoying the flow of life we experience the blessings that are natural to us.

All the Best,
Alex

[DarkCosmoz]

It is easy to reduce suffering:
Bake happiness and peace and share.

Thanks.

Not everything in the world has God flowing through it already. What about evil? What about Stalin and Hitler? They were, in my opinion, individuals completely opposed to God. There was no God flowing through them. In fact, they did everything in their power to stamp out God in the world.

Here's a short rant...

These dictators, like 99% of the world, were driven by ego. It is my strong belief that they all possessed powerful but misdirected and distorted spiritual energy. As an example, Hitler was known to have befriended Tibetan monks in order to learn more about these occult powers.

Could this energy they seemed to have possessed be called God? Certainly. God is neither evil nor good on a universal level. He just is. Hindu Goddess Kali Ma is often invoked and prayed to for speeding up karma and healing. Worshippers see her as the ultimate cosmic reality, where all phenomena dissolve and come into being. Unfortunately, Her same energy has also been used in black magic rites to kill and destroy. It's the same divine energy, just directed differently.

In Hinduism, ego is often portrayed as various demons incredibly difficult to destroy. They were formidable opponents because symbolically, they make up the id of who we think we are in this world. Destroy your ego to attain God, and your whole reality of who you think you are will shatter. Interestingly, these "ego demons" were often destroyed by goddesses like Kali(kundalini).

They did everything in their power, and yet it was not enough. It can never be enough because evil can never last enduringly, because evil is not the nature of humans and not the nature of the world we live in.

This can be tricky. Spiritual laws state that events happen because of karma ripening. Did these dictators fullfill their karma? Nondualistically on a cosmic scheme, there is no good or evil but just energy or God.

One can also replace above the word "evil" with the word "ego."

Just ranting...