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Is it Wudang Taijiquan or Wudang Kungfu?

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  • Is it Wudang Taijiquan or Wudang Kungfu?

    Dear Family,

    Greetings to all! I just recently came back from taking part of the amazing UK Summer Camp, where I had some conversations with my brothers Tim, Barry and Sifu regarding the practice of Wudang Taijiquan and its teaching methodology. Sifu had experesed many times that Wudang Taijiquan is the pinacle of Shaolin Kungfu, or to be more precise, that Wudang Taijiquan evolved from Shaolin Kungfu and that at the time was developed by the immortal Zhang San Feng, was just called Kungfu. The name Taijiquan came about much later and a few great classics had been written by some Masters.


    So, in order to best honor the real history behind the method and its source, the following question came about and Sifu asked me to posted here, for the consideration of the family:

    Is it more appropriate to call our Wudang Taijiquan, Wudang Kungfu? Maybe, Wudang Shaolinquan? Or maybe Zhang San Feng Kungfu?

    Looking forward to your answers.
    Last edited by Angel Guillermo; 9 July 2017, 04:06 AM.
    [/SIGPIC] Sifu Ángel Pérez
    Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


    "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
    - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

    "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
    - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

  • #2
    I would vote for Wudang Kungfu.


    Best wishes,

    Nessa
    Nessa Kahila
    Shaolin Nordic Finland
    Instructor
    nessa@shaolin-nordic.com

    www.shaolin-nordic.com

    Comment


    • #3
      I prefer Wudang Kungfu. It is a term I have used a lot over the years and I feel it separates what we practice and teach from other types of Tai Chi or Taijiquan. However, I also use Taijiquan or Tai Chi Chuan as a description for our London classes.

      If I were to pick one though, I would choose Wudang Kungfu.

      Thanks for highlighting brother.
      Tim Franklin

      http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
      A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

      www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

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      UK Summer Camp Qigong, Taijiquan, Shaolin Kung Fu, Spiritual Cultivation with Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

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      • #4
        A vote for Wudang Kungfu

        Originally posted by Nessa View Post
        I would vote for Wudang Kungfu.


        Best wishes,

        Nessa
        Dear Nessa,

        Thanks for your reply!

        Looking forward to seeing you and brother Markus in December!

        Best Wishes,

        Angel
        [/SIGPIC] Sifu Ángel Pérez
        Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


        "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
        - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

        "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
        - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

        Comment


        • #5
          Another vote for Wudang Kungfu

          Originally posted by Tim View Post
          I prefer Wudang Kungfu. It is a term I have used a lot over the years and I feel it separates what we practice and teach from other types of Tai Chi or Taijiquan. However, I also use Taijiquan or Tai Chi Chuan as a description for our London classes.

          If I were to pick one though, I would choose Wudang Kungfu.

          Thanks for highlighting brother.
          Dear Brother,

          Thanks so much for your reply. I agree with you, if I were to pick one, I would choose Wudang Kungu also.

          See you in Penang!
          Angel
          [/SIGPIC] Sifu Ángel Pérez
          Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


          "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
          - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

          "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
          - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

          Comment


          • #6
            Dear Brothers, Dear Sister

            My preference would go towards Wudang Taijiquan, meaning Wudang Kosmos Kungfu.

            There is the word "Kungfu" in "Taijiquan". But even beyond that. I was lucky to learn the long "Wudang Taijiquan" set with a small group in Penang in 2013 and I feel that if there is a set opening up to what it means that "taiji comes from wuiji" and "returns to wuji" then it is this set. So for me this set is at the essence of Taijiquan. At a more practical level, much was lost in Taijiquan and "Wudang Taijiquan" reminds us Taijiquan practioners where our roots lie.

            But then names are just names ...

            Best regards
            Andrea
            Enjoy some Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan & Qi Gong!

            Evening Classes in Zürich
            Weekend Classes in other Swiss locations


            Website: www.taichichuan-wahnam.ch
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            • #7
              taiwudangfu......

              Dear Siheng Angel and Family,
              technically it could be both, it’s a matter of practice as slow Kung Fu can seem to be Taijiquan and fast Taijiquan can be seen as Kung Fu.

              As a suggestion what about an integrated principle for both?

              Perhaps ‘The Art of Wudang’ or The Cosmic Art of Wudang’ for example.

              Just a thought,
              Blessings & Gratitude
              James O\
              Aaahhhhh!

              Comment


              • #8
                Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family,

                Thank you Angel Sidai for starting this very interesting thread. It is a great opportunity for learning more about this marvelous art and its history, philosophy and origins.

                Thank you Andrea Sijatnui for your explanation:

                Originally posted by Andrea View Post

                There is the word "Kungfu" in "Taijiquan". But even beyond that. I was lucky to learn the long "Wudang Taijiquan" set with a small group in Penang in 2013 and I feel that if there is a set opening up to what it means that "taiji comes from wuiji" and "returns to wuji" then it is this set. So for me this set is at the essence of Taijiquan. At a more practical level, much was lost in Taijiquan and "Wudang Taijiquan" reminds us Taijiquan practioners where our roots lie.
                I would agree with Andrea Sijatnui. Adding to that, I think that calling it "Wudang Taijiquan" would also be a great opportunity for restoring the glory of genuine Tai Chi Chuan. Many people think that Tai Chi Chuan is just a dance and not a Martial Art.

                I heard that in the school many people were calling "Shaolin Kung Fu", "Shaolinquan". At first I was quite confused as I didn't know that "Shaolinquan" meant the same than "Shaolin Kung Fu". Later, I was kindly explained that "Shaolinquan" is the Chinese term for "Shaolin Kung Fu". I found one of Sifu's explanations here:

                Many people who practice Taijiquan, or Tai Chi Chuan, in the West may be surprised that it is actually an effective martial art. "Quan" (pronounced as "ch'uan") in the term "Taijiquan" is the short form for "quan fa", a Chinese term which corresponds to what westerners would call "kungfu". It is significant to note that "Shaolin Kungfu" is called "Shaolinquan" in Chinese, which is the short form for "Shaolin quan fa". "Taiji" means "the grand ultimate", which is the Chinese term for the cosmos. Hence, Taijiquan really means "Cosmos Kungfu". - Sifu
                In our School, I believe that we are using more often the term "Shaolin Kung Fu" rather than "Shaolinquan". Interestingly, we use the "quan" at the end of "Taijiquan" but not with "Shaolin Kung Fu". I will use this opportunity for kindly asking why would be the reason behind it?

                With Love, Care and Shaolin Salute,

                Santi

                Comment


                • #9
                  A vote for Wudang Taijiquan

                  Originally posted by Andrea View Post
                  Dear Brothers, Dear Sister

                  My preference would go towards Wudang Taijiquan, meaning Wudang Kosmos Kungfu.

                  There is the word "Kungfu" in "Taijiquan". But even beyond that. I was lucky to learn the long "Wudang Taijiquan" set with a small group in Penang in 2013 and I feel that if there is a set opening up to what it means that "taiji comes from wuiji" and "returns to wuji" then it is this set. So for me this set is at the essence of Taijiquan. At a more practical level, much was lost in Taijiquan and "Wudang Taijiquan" reminds us Taijiquan practioners where our roots lie.

                  But then names are just names ...

                  Best regards
                  Andrea
                  Dear Andrea,

                  Thanks so much for your comment!

                  Looking forward to see you in Penang!

                  Best wishes,
                  Angel
                  [/SIGPIC] Sifu Ángel Pérez
                  Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


                  "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
                  - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                  "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
                  - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Very interesting!

                    Originally posted by James L View Post
                    Dear Siheng Angel and Family,
                    technically it could be both, it’s a matter of practice as slow Kung Fu can seem to be Taijiquan and fast Taijiquan can be seen as Kung Fu.

                    As a suggestion what about an integrated principle for both?

                    Perhaps ‘The Art of Wudang’ or The Cosmic Art of Wudang’ for example.

                    Just a thought,
                    Blessings & Gratitude
                    James O\
                    Dear James,

                    Thanks for your comment, it is very interesting!

                    Best wishes,
                    Angel
                    [/SIGPIC] Sifu Ángel Pérez
                    Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


                    "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
                    - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                    "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
                    - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Another vote for Wudang Taijiquan

                      In our School, I believe that we are using more often the term "Shaolin Kung Fu" rather than "Shaolinquan". Interestingly, we use the "quan" at the end of "Taijiquan" but not with "Shaolin Kung Fu". I will use this opportunity for kindly asking why would be the reason behind it?

                      With Love, Care and Shaolin Salute,

                      Santi
                      Dear Santiago,

                      Thanks so much for your interesting comments and question. So your wish is granted! Sifu asked me to post the answer to your question on his behalf. Enjoy!

                      We use "Shaolin Kungfu", and not :Shaolinquan" because of popular usage.

                      Indeed, many terms used in our school are due to popular usage. For example, we use "kungfu" instead of "gong fu", "chi kung" instead of "qigong", "Zen" instead of "Chan", and "Wong Kiew Kit" instead of "Huang Qiao Jie".

                      I would also like to point out that it is Shaolin Kungfu, and not just "kungfu". Even instructors make this mistake.

                      "Kungfu" is what most Westerners mean by "Chinese martial arts". There are many styles of kungfu, such as Shaolin Kungfu, Lohan Kungfu, Monkey Kungfu, Taijiquan (which is Cosmos Kungfu), Baguazhang (which is Pakua Palm Kungfu)< and Xingyiquan (which is Hsing Yi Kungfu).
                      Best wishes,
                      Angel
                      [/SIGPIC] Sifu Ángel Pérez
                      Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


                      "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
                      - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                      "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
                      - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ever more interesting....

                        Dear Angel, something that occurs to me in Sigung's comment about the Arts when he mentions;

                        I would also like to point out that it is Shaolin Kungfu, and not just "kungfu". Even instructors make this mistake.

                        "Kungfu" is what most Westerners mean by "Chinese martial arts". There are many styles of kungfu, such as Shaolin Kungfu, Lohan Kungfu, Monkey Kungfu, Taijiquan (which is Cosmos Kungfu), Baguazhang (which is Pakua Palm Kungfu)< and Xingyiquan (which is Hsing Yi Kungfu).


                        Here's another idea - Wudang Shaolin Taijiquan

                        However as Andrea states: Wudang Taijiquan covers Cosmos Kung Fu and Wudang. Very doable!

                        Best Wishes
                        James O\
                        Last edited by James L; 10 July 2017, 11:38 PM.
                        Aaahhhhh!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Angel Guillermo View Post
                          Dear Nessa,

                          Thanks for your reply!

                          Looking forward to seeing you and brother Markus in December!

                          Best Wishes,

                          Angel

                          Yes, we will be there.
                          Looking forward to seeing you too!


                          Best wishes,

                          Nessa
                          Nessa Kahila
                          Shaolin Nordic Finland
                          Instructor
                          nessa@shaolin-nordic.com

                          www.shaolin-nordic.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you. :-)

                            Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family,

                            Originally posted by Angel Guillermo View Post
                            Dear Santiago,

                            Thanks so much for your interesting comments and question. So your wish is granted! Sifu asked me to post the answer to your question on his behalf. Enjoy!

                            Best wishes,
                            Angel
                            Thank you Sifu for taking the time to answer my question. It is very much appreciated.

                            Thank you Angel Sidai for sharing with us the answer to my question.

                            With Love, Care and Shaolin Salute,

                            Santi

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My Dear Family,

                              My thoughts are that it should be Wudang Tai Chi Chuan.

                              Zhang San Feng was a Taoist priest and is considered the Patriarch of Tai Chi Chuan.

                              I know it was called Wudang Kungfu at the time, but in my opinion to preserve the beauty and essence of this beautiful art, to honour The Treatise of Zhang San Feng and to respect the 'Grand Ultimate' in today's world, I would prefer Wudang Tai Chi Chuan also.

                              Happy training and teaching,
                              Joan
                              Books don't mean a lot unless you open them, Hearts are the same.......


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