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  • The “ How” of Expressing One’s Views

    Dear Shaolin family and friends,

    In light of the recent announcement made by Sifu Andrew, entitled “Steve – Removed from Shaolin Wahnam”, it is worth re-highlighting the fact that the Shaolin Wahnam Institute is an international organisation that welcomes participants regardless of age, gender, culture, ethnicity or spiritual beliefs.

    Because of the global nature of this establishment, it is natural that there would be different views shared among the Shaolin Wahnam members. These differing views are not only tolerated, but welcomed.

    Underlying all interactions within the Shaolin Wahnam Institute must be basic courtesy and respect.

    In this way, a clear distinction must be made between the expression of a view and "how" it is expressed.

    For clarification, please see the following 4 modes:

    a) A differing view that is expressed respectfully is welcome.

    b) A similar view that is expressed respectfully is welcome.

    c) A differing view that is expressed disrespectfully is not welcome.

    d) A similar view that is expressed disrespectfully is not welcome.


    To this end, any Shaolin Wahnam member choosing to express his/her views via modes c) or d) is tacitly stating that he/she does not consider him/herself to be part of the Shaolin Wahnam establishment.

    In the case of Steve’s participation, it should be noted that it was his choice to write that we Shaolin Wahnam members:

    a) “pretend to be reasonable, open-hearted and forgiving”,

    b) and that we “put it down to hate-speak or disrespect or whatever is simply a clever way to stop us asking why.”

    This is not merely the expression of differing views, but rather conduct that is insulting and unbecoming of a student towards his seniors.

    It should also be noted that this is not the first time that Steve has shown such disrespectful and unbecoming behavior. He has been warned many times before but has chosen to ignore the advice and warnings. Even after Steve wrote the most recent statements above, he was given the chance to take responsibility for his conduct; yet he chose not to.

    In Shaolin Wahnam, the conduct of Steve is regarded as a betrayal. Hence, he is no longer part of this school.

    Regardless, we wish Steve well.

    Let it be clearly stated once again that Shaolin Wahnam students are welcome to hold different views, as in the “God versus Science” thread and other threads, but they should express them respectfully.

    The Shaolin Wahnam Institute is committed to providing a safe and wholesome platform for healthy and invigorating discussions.

    With Shaolin salute,

    Emiko
    Emiko Hsuen
    www.shaolinwahnam.jp
    www.shaolinwahnam.ca

    INTENSIVE & SPECIAL COURSES -- PENANG 2018
    Taught by Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit
    4th generation successor of the Southern Shaolin Monastery
    Small and Big Universe Course: Nov 21 to 25
    Becoming a Shaolin Wahnam Kungfu Practitioner: Nov 26 to Dec 2
    Cultivating Spirit Nourishing Energy: Dec 2 to Dec 8
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    To apply, send email to: secretary@shaolin.org


  • #2
    Dear Sifu Emiko,

    Thank you for your post and explanation. I appreciate the clarity in distinguishing the difference between appropriate and disrespectful conduct and how it relates to the situation with Steve.

    Also, I would like to extend my thanks to all involved in keeping our forum fruitful and beneficial.

    Best wishes,
    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      Dear Emiko Siguje,

      Thank you for taking the time to explain and clarify the subject for us. It is much appreciated.

      I too would also like to wish Steve all the very best for the future.

      Kindest regards

      Your Sijat

      Martin

      Comment


      • #4
        For those that haven’t been following.
        Discussion that lead to removal; to bring awareness in order to avoid or at least lessen the attacks and bashing of “distracters” (to use a Wahnam word).

        It has become about respect, because members have chosen to make it a personal issue and have failed to see the principle.

        We all have respect, dignity and pride. The problem comes in when there is “too much”. Too much of these make one arrogant, conceited and beyond reproach.

        You claim to have been very tolerant as if it’s a virtue. But tolerance is actually negative. If you like something, you don’t have to tolerate it. Tolerance indicates a deep sense of dislike that can at any time turn into hatred. It indicates a sense of separateness, small mindedness, and a limitation of consciousness.

        When you tolerate, it’s a temporary state. Tolerance is a potential volcano. If you are tolerating, it means you are holding on.

        How are you able to smile from the heart and be tolerant at the same time?

        There are members that are easily triggered when challenged by “distracters”. Responsibility has to be owned first.

        Why?
        You are taking yourselves far too seriously. Reason perhaps; many of you have attached your self worth and identity to chi kung, taijiquan, kung fu and the school, thus the need to defend so strongly. This can be mistaken as loyalty.

        Don’t you see you are holding onto nothing – there is nothing to defend.

        You are punching into fresh air – you fail to see the joke!

        Comment


        • #5
          I am glad to see you posting after a brief hiatus.

          Tolerance may or may not be a virtue - it depends on the circumstances. The Chinese have a saying 忍辱负重 which means to tolerate humiliation to achieve greater things. There are times that one must tolerate shame, injustice, pain and suffering, simply because it is not the time to act.

          In this particular case, Shaolin Wahnam had decided it would no longer tolerate (a better word is "condone") the words and deeds of a student who persistently ignored the reminders and later warnings of senior instructors.

          Let's be clear. Your removal was not due to your disagreeing with anyone on this forum. Your differences in opinion are quite distinct from how you have been behaving. As a Shaolin Wahnam student, you have certain duties and responsibilities. For one, you are subject to the Ten Shaolin laws. Can you, in good faith, say you have tried to comply with them?

          Our loyalty

          We have not attached our self-worth to the school or our arts. Rather, we are grateful to Sifu and the school for the benefits we have received from these arts, and loyalty is simply a natural consequence of that gratitude. So, why are you not grateful or loyal to Shaolin Wahnam. Do you mean that you did not receive any benefits from the practice of the Shaolin arts? If so, despite the relatively long time that you have been with us (since 2002, I believe?) it is indeed in your best interest that you are not part of Shaolin Wahnam, so that you can continue your search.

          Distractors?

          Different Shaolin Wahnam members react differently to posts. That is a reflection of how differences in styles, opinions and sentiments are welcomed in this forum. But there is a line that forum members in general, and Shaolin Wahnam students in particular, do not cross. that line is the thick black line of respect. Respect is not a dirty word, Steve. It is something we all like shown to us, including you, I am sure. When those you call distractors start spewing words of hatred or anger, there is no need for us to tolerate that (there's the word again), is there? If a distractor over-reacts to a single post from a Shaolin Wahnam member, we are not responsible for that reaction.

          , not
          百德以孝为先
          Persevere in correct practice

          Comment


          • #6
            Dear Steve,

            If you wish to have your arguments taken seriously, you will have to articulate them with a great deal more care.

            Originally posted by steve View Post
            For those that haven’t been following.
            Discussion that lead to removal; to bring awareness in order to avoid or at least lessen the attacks and bashing of “distracters” (to use a Wahnam word).
            Who is doing the bashing here? Shaolin Wahnam? The distractors? Could you try to be a little more clear?

            Who is bringing "awareness"? You? Certainly not with writing and thinking as fuzzily as you are.


            It has become about respect, because members have chosen to make it a personal issue and have failed to see the principle.
            Yes, the issue is about respect; or more properly, your lack of respect. No, it is not because anyone has made it a personal issue, it is because you have been blatantly disrespectful. End of story. And what principle are you talking about? If you are trying to make a point, you should probably try to make a point.

            We all have respect, dignity and pride. The problem comes in when there is “too much”. Too much of these make one arrogant, conceited and beyond reproach
            .
            What are you trying to say here? This is just a vague suggestion of a criticism without explanation or substantiation or target. It seems to me that you are the arrogant one, trying to lecture your former schoolmates. "Beyond reproach"? You are the one who was warned on a number of occassions by a number of people but failed to listen?
            Who is it that cannot accept criticism?

            You claim to have been very tolerant as if it’s a virtue. But tolerance is actually negative. If you like something, you don’t have to tolerate it. Tolerance indicates a deep sense of dislike that can at any time turn into hatred. It indicates a sense of separateness, small mindedness, and a limitation of consciousness.
            Your understanding of tolerance is perverted.

            If you are tolerating, it means you are holding on.
            No, it's quite the opposite, actually. We let go and we "allow" things to happen.

            How are you able to smile from the heart and be tolerant at the same time?
            As above.

            There are members that are easily triggered when challenged by “distracters”
            .
            I disagree with you. You see members "easily triggered" I see brave cultivators rising to challenges.

            Responsibility has to be owned first.
            What are you talking about?

            Why?
            Why what?

            You are taking yourselves far too seriously.
            I take my Kung Fu training seriously: I practice properly everyday, the way me Sifu taught me. I take the Ten Shaolin Laws seriously: I respect my Master and love my classates as brothers and sisters. Take myself seriously? Hardly.

            If you are trying to demonstrate how unseriously you take things by paying very little attention to your logic or your arguments then you are doing a good job. If you are trying to show how unseriously you take things by making assertions without bothering to properly substantiate them with examples and evidence then you are doing a good job. You don't take things too seriously and you don't make much sense. Your lack of mental clarity also suggests you weren't taking your Chi Kung training too seriously either.

            many of you have attached your self worth and identity to chi kung, taijiquan, kung fu and the school, thus the need to defend so strongly.
            So confused you are, backwards getting things a lot.

            It may be an exaggeration to say I felt worthless before learning kung fu, but I did not really value my life. Yes, it is true, I have a great deal of self worth now. Do I "attach" it to Kung Fu? What does that even mean, Steve? Attach my identity to Chi Kung? Do you even know what you are talking about? Our Chi Kung Fu gives value to our lives and improves our self worth. If we feel the need to defend, it is because we place value on things. If you choose not to value anything or defend anything, that is your perogative.

            But actually, when people come to our forum and start to blather there really is no need to defend. Did you learn that in Shaolin Wahnam? No defense-direct counter. We need no defense against nonsense.

            This can be mistaken as loyalty.
            No mistake, Steve. We are loyal.

            Don’t you see you are holding onto nothing – there is nothing to defend.
            Please save your psuedo-Zen pap for people who don't know any better.

            You are punching into fresh air – you fail to see the joke!
            And here you are most wrong--we do see the joke!


            With Monkey Salutation,


            Charles
            Charles David Chalmers
            Brunei Darussalam

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm no longer a Shaolin Wahnam student.

              Dear Shaolin Wahnam members,

              Actually I agree with a lot that Steve has inferred and can understand what he is saying quite clearly.

              I have decided that I MUST leave the school for reasons that must be obvious and need no more explanation/examination, especially as posting on the forum is now a requirement to pass the gradings which have now been set up in London. There is no sense in me attending classes all the while repressing my feelings about the views and actions of some of those in the school - that's just bad for your health.

              I shall continue practising what I have learned, and indeed I shall treasure it for Chi Kung is a supreme gift. But I must now move on to other things.

              I wish you all the greatest success with your practise and I hope that your school continues to flourish.

              I make no parting shots and don't expect any in return. I hope that you all respect my decision.

              From the heart,
              With gratitude,

              Darran Laine
              The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. Oscar Wilde

              Comment


              • #8
                I hear you Zhang Wuji. The violation of law 1, trying to apply law 4, because of a violation of laws 8 & 9.

                What I said went right over you head Charles. Your post is ridiculously childish! (as usual. Which needed to be said a long time ago)

                You are using wrong reasoning. With wrong reasoning the conclusion comes first – usually how to get what we want – the want being the conclusion we seek to justify through ‘reasoning’. With right reasoning the conclusion comes last.

                You may justify your actions as you please, but the bottom line is Wahnam has been involved in squabbles with distractors on numerous occassions. In which Wahnam plays its part. Charles, you are one of the main culprits when it comes to bashing and escalating the problem. “Bashing distractors” was explained by a Wahnam senior after the Wu Jing saga. Andrew has cooled down from how he used to be.

                I believe these squabbles can be avoided or lessened. It’s up to you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Darran

                  Sorry that this discussion/issue has led to this.

                  My intention is to improve relations with the so called "baddies" on this forum, not to turn people off Wahnam.

                  Thanks for speaking out Darran.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Steve,

                    You waste a lot of time now, that's just my opinion. What do you expect with your posts? Like in other threads, your message is not clear at all, no matter how hard you try.
                    "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                    26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                    Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                    Website: www.enerqi.ch

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by steve View Post
                      Hi Darran

                      Sorry that this discussion/issue has led to this.

                      My intention is to improve relations with the so called "baddies" on this forum, not to turn people off Wahnam.

                      Thanks for speaking out Darran.
                      Steve,
                      Please don't feel responsible for that. I feel that my decision has led naturally from the practise of Shaolin Kung Fu and I am happy with it. It has given me equanimity and courage in all areas of my life and I am grateful.
                      Darran
                      The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. Oscar Wilde

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by steve View Post
                        My intention is to improve relations with the so called "baddies" on this forum, not to turn people off Wahnam.
                        Why?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chiahua View Post
                          Why?
                          Do I need to explain.

                          The over reacting defensive behaviour of some Wahnam members, towards anybody (normally outsiders) that challenges their beliefs, comes across as unbecoming and unhealthy.

                          And unnecessary!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry, I was a bit vague.
                            I meant why do you want to improve relations between the so called "baddies" on the forum?
                            And then, why do you want to not turn people off from Wahnam?
                            I'm curious about what matters to you in regards these two related issues. It will help me understand where you're coming from, if that makes any sense.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Chiahua

                              I meant why do you want to improve relations between the so called "baddies" on the forum?
                              As I have explained. The squabbles are unbecoming and unhealthy. I find it unnecessary.

                              And then, why do you want to not turn people off from Wahnam?
                              Because I don't, that's not my intention.

                              If I wanted people to leave Wahnam, I would remain silent. The squabbling is definitely not a good advert.
                              Last edited by Charles David; 11th December 2008, 09:25 PM. Reason: technical (repair quote box)

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