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  • Post here about Aikido!

    Hi just thought I'd begin a new thread for Aikido, so Mark, Aikipansy and I, and whoever else can chat about Aikido.

    The secret is in the misogi training, these are the vital (and secret) solo exercises derived from Chinese Chi-gongs to develop the body mechanics to learn rooting, aikido's fajin (Japanese:shunpatsuryoku, or instant-release power), and enable practitioners to do takemusu aikido. Yes, not Taijiquan mechanics, perhaps more like Shaolin with emphasis on toe and back. And yes, breath (pressure to solidify connections or absorb) is added to body structure power as a highest level power generation. That misogi is "taught" as a warm-up and only half-heartedly is truly sad. Most aikidoists even in Japan have no real base, and cannot understand the techniques other than through external shape, and very few teachers who know how to do stuff really well are prepared to teach it. It's hard to spot the real thing too, when you don't know what you're looking for :-)
    I would love for you to expand on what you wrote, and post some videos showing what you wrote about. Do you practice Aikido?

    I met a fairly good aikido practitioner in Tokyo last year who told me Aikido was developed from an art called Yuwara. Or at least thats what I thought he said. (My Japanese and his English were terrible...) What are your thoughts on this?
    I read from a couple of sources that it evolved from O'sensi Ueshiba's training in Aiki-Ju Jitsu. I suppose it's like trying to find several master who agree on the origins of Tai Chi, or any martial art for that matter.
    http://www.liberty-human-rights.org....ig-brother.pdf www.amnesty.org www.indymedia.org.uk

  • #2
    grammar,

    Ueshiba received his teaching certificate from Takeda (Daito-ryu) and that is a link that is documentable so no secret here. Aikido expression, as we know today, is a Ueshiba development. Sadly with his generation gone, that expression has dwindled. Nevertheless, it has a good foundation for anyone to emulate into their spiritual endeavours.

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    • #3
      Hi Gernot,

      Thanks for the Yawara breakdown. You reminded me of something I once read by Don Draeger in Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts. I'd forgotten all about it! I should try and get my copy sent over. (Although I never quite trust Draeger...)

      You're training sounds interesting! How often are you in Tokyo? At the moment I'm training with a taikiken circle (Yiquan). They also emphasize the importance of the big toe and the back, which they say comes from kendo. Or maybe they say its like Kendo. (Sadly saying anything taxes my Japanese... BTW if you can read a Japanese magazine, I take my hat off to you! ) Anyway, not that it matters much the ball of the front foot's always been very important in Yiquan.

      How is shunpatsuryoku used in Akido? Somebody once showed me how to use hakke to escape from a grip! It seems like over kill to me, but maybe if its a really good grip...
      Is there striking in Aikido? Thinking about it I guess there must be if there's a sword!

      Mark

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      • #4
        Frist off, thanks to grammar for creating a new thread for this topic. I got
        the feeling most members were from the UK, but clearly not the few
        posting here now! I'm from South Africa, Cape Town to be precise, and
        kow of Leslie Reed there. Quite a few people I know study with him (there
        is a well-respected Taiwanese bone-doctor teaching too, not sure if there
        is rivalry or not, but it can only be good!). On to the aikido...

        Originally posted by Mark B
        Thanks for the Yawara breakdown. You reminded me of something I once read by Don Draeger in Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts. I'd forgotten all about it! I should try and get my copy sent over. (Although I never quite trust Draeger...)
        Hello Mark, my sentiments entirely. Draeger thought he was looking at the right stuff, but there's lots that he missed, or wrote off because the practitioners he saw were crap. Still, as a reference and for historical purposes, indispensible.

        Originally posted by Mark B
        How often are you in Tokyo? At the moment I'm training with a taikiken circle (Yiquan). They also emphasize the importance of the big toe and the back, which they say comes from kendo. Or maybe they say its like Kendo. (Sadly saying anything taxes my Japanese... BTW if you can read a Japanese magazine, I take my hat off to you! ) Anyway, not that it matters much the ball of the front foot's always been very important in Yiquan.
        Once a month. Next visit 17/18 June. Training on Saturday night with a fairly
        young teacher named Akuzawa. Fushimidai, on the Seibu-Ikebukuro line from
        Ikebukuro. Starts at 7PM, casual clothes, indoor shoes, venue is a small
        room with a wooden floor. Basic exercises, push hands, some kicks, and
        aiki age, for 1.5 hours. Solo exercises are the mainstay, and this is what I
        use to give some core to my aikido, while attempting to get hold of the
        secrets of the internal power in aikido - and yes, they are secret, because
        nobody openly teaches them as far as I can tell. I train with Abe Seiseki in
        Osaka, and he focusses on breath afte body coordination. But he does not
        teach how to do the daily exercises needed to develop that body. So nobody
        knows how to actually get the benefits of the ritual misogi exercises. Well,
        since they are derived from chinese Chi-gungs, it is possible I guess to get
        some information by training the Chinese chi-gungs (the martial ones). That
        is the purpose of my trips to Tokyo. It made a HUGE difference in all aspects
        of my life, from walkind and sitting, speaking, to dancing and every other
        physical activity.

        Originally posted by Mark B
        How is shunpatsuryoku used in Akido? Somebody once showed me how to use hakke to escape from a grip! It seems like over kill to me, but maybe if its a really good grip...
        Is there striking in Aikido? Thinking about it I guess there must be if there's a sword!
        Not sure is my direct answer, since I am not sure how necessary it is. Abe
        sensei does very ery small movements from tanden that control his arm
        and hand movements, let us say 1/10th of a mm. But it is enough to
        unbalance someone under many circumstances, without extra additive
        movements and power. So many of the aikido movements work on that
        initial unbalancing which is literally invisible. Strikes? I learned whole-body
        coordination in Tokyo, and now overhead strikes are pretty darned "heavy".
        Nothing else though, unless you consider that contact with a connected body
        at any position is a strike. So my partner's simulated attack is either controlled
        if I touch in a blending way, or s/he is "struck" if I touch in a direction which
        is not blending. Both have full body behind them. Not sure if I am rooted,
        but standing practice does this for me.

        A short reply to grammar: sorry, no videos, my room is a "work in progress"
        and I would not like to advertise its current status Also, I am a shy bloke.
        Expansion: my ideas are to be taken with plenty of salt, I have only 15 years
        behind me in aikido, and only the last 3 or so have seen me getting really
        curious about the errors I perceive in training, and about the lack of convincing
        answers to my complaints and questions. I can only say for now that since I
        began training in Tokyo in September (once a month!) my aikido has jumped
        several notches, which is both a relief and very very sad at the same time. The
        dojo-cho has commented how much stronger I got, so I take that as a sign
        that I am on the right track (also that beginners are no problem any more no
        matter what they do or don't do, so I feel I have some definite principles here
        that I can apply consistently and logically), and I can get raw beginners to do
        the same thing in minutes, although of course they don't have logical structure
        yet to remember how to get back there on their own (nmissing checklist).

        I think I need about a year more of serious solo practice before I can say
        anything with certainty. I do mabu, shiko and shintaijiku every morning and evening now, but not the 200 or 300 repetitions that I believe are necessary - only 30 to 40 minutes at a time.

        I will try to answer questions as best I can, and differentiate between my
        opinions, those of my Aikido teacher Abe Seiseki who is 94 this year and
        obviously has a long long experience to call on, and those of Akuzawa
        who is a bagua/xhinyi man with Muay Thai experience as well as winning
        the first international Sanda tournament several years back.

        I hope I may learn more about Chinese arts here, as I do on the QiJing
        mailing list run by Mike Sigman, the EmptyFlower forum, and the rec.martial-arts Usenet group. I do not have any particular agenda except
        to follow my curiousity and feelings about body coordination (my hobby),
        so I don't mind criticism and different insights from people who've never
        done Aikido per se - for me this is not about one art, it's about how to
        efficiently use the body in a very wide sense.

        Sincerely, Gernot

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