Shantung Black Tiger

[DarkCosmoz]

Just ordered a copy from Amazon.com "Shantung Black Tiger" (I am a kung fu book fanatic ) Hope this book is good!

[hakfudisciple]

Heh Heh

Well lut us know what you think of it after you read it.







jeff

[DarkCosmoz]

From: http://www.dragonslist.com/articles/...?articleid=128

History of Black Tiger

Within the walls of the ancient Shaolin Temple was taught a deadly form of combat that embodied the spirit and power of the tiger. This humble temple was the birthplace of the Shaolin Temple Black Tiger kung-fu ( ) . This ancient and secret form of Chinese martial arts is one of the original forms created. Shrouded in mystery, this art was passed down through the generations only to the most loyal and trustworthy monks of Shaolin.
During the Ching dynasty a Shaolin Monk, whose name is unknown, escaped from the Manchurian empire’s destruction of the Shaolin monastery. Many of the monks escaped, some going into hiding, some fleeing to the north, others heading to the south. Many joined the cause to fight oppression of the Ching dynasty. It is known that some factions of the Black Tiger Clan had traveled to Shantung province where the art still may be taught. Our history continues in Kwangtung province in the south of China.
One particular monk fled to Southern China to find refuge, his name always kept a secret to guard him from the authorities. At that time, the south of China was a staging ground for the Shaolin rebels to regroup and train new followers to overthrow the corrupt Manchurian Empire. With this monk’s escape, the art of Shaolin Temple Black Tiger kung-fu was brought to the city of Kwangjau (Canton).
Many smaller brother temples affiliated with Shaolin are in the Kwangtung province and hid the fleeing Shaolin monks and their students. In these temples they continued to train and develop their art to restore peace to the country. The powerful system of the Shaolin Black Tiger now had to go underground to survive. There it stayed for many years until recently many masters have begun to rediscover it and its treasures. The art is now resurfacing and being restored as one of the original forms taught in Shaolin.


It is known that some factions of the Black Tiger Clan had traveled to Shantung province where the art still may be taught.

hakfudisciple,
Does this mean that Northern and Southern Black tiger are similar if not the same?

[hakfudisciple]

DarkCosmoz ,

It is believed that Shantung Black Tiger ,and Sil Lum Hak Fu Muhn (Shaolin Black Tiger) did at one time, either cross paths or came from the same source.

Now the person that wrote that article is a Fu Jow Pai stylist. That is another clog in the history that is hard to figure out. Because Fu Jow Pai claims that they are Hark Fu Moon ( another way of saying Black Tiger Style) also. So that leaves us with three Black Tiger styles. Of which the one i studhy is the least known ,but we trace our lineage to Su Hak Fu ,who is known to be the creator of Black Tiger style.

This is not to say that any other black tiger style can not also trace their roots back to Su Hak Fu ,but most don't mention him anywhere in their lineage. Which to me is very odd. Fu Jow Pai uses that un-named monk story for their history. What is known is that Su Hak Fu himself had a school in Canton for sometime.

My sigung Grandmaster Wong Cheung learned his black tiger from a former shaolin monk named Fung Ping-Wai. Fung Ping Wai learned from another monk who's name i can't recall right now. But that monk learned from Siu Tak who learned from Su Hak Fu himeself.

So it's hard to say with those other styles when they crossed paths with our black tiger. Black tiger has always been an undergroung style. Although Grandmaster Wong Cheung taught it for over 40 yrs it never went mainstream. Black Tiger has alot of occult like practices ,so that helped to keep it that way. I myself am just really getting into the history of my style.

I was never a person that cared about that stuff in the past. But it is something that truly intrests me know.



jeff

[Antonius]

Jeff, does most of the Fu Jow Pai you've seen come from Wai Hong and Wong Moon Toy, or do you know of distinctly separate lineages that also call themselves Fu Jow Pai?

This is the lineage I'm familiar with: http://www.fujowpaikungfu.com/chart.html

[hakfudisciple]

Originally posted by Antonius
Jeff, does most of the Fu Jow Pai you've seen come from Wai Hong and Wong Moon Toy, or do you know of distinctly separate lineages that also call themselves Fu Jow Pai?

This is the lineage I'm familiar with: http://www.fujowpaikungfu.com/chart.html

Hey Anthony,


How are you my friend?


Well to be honest....... the only lineage of Fu Jow Pai i've ever seen is what you've posted. I have yet to meet , see or hear of any Fu Jow Pai lineage other than Wai Hongs. It was believed by many , and still is by some. That Wai Hong or Wong Mon Toy might have created the style themself. But that is not the case ,it is an actual style that goes back in history.

How far back i can't really say for sure.

What i was told is this.

Fu Jow Pai had another name before Hark Fu Moon. I can't remember it now. I'll have to ask again ,but it did have another name. Also many say it was Wai Hong that changed the name from Hark Fu Moon to Fu Jow Pai. When infact i've heard that it was Wong Mon Toy that actually did this. I'm being basic here because i've had ppl attack me for saying some of this stuff.

Many former Fu Jow Pai ppl have taken offense to some of these things that i've posted at other forums. But what they don't know and i often point out is this. Grandmaster Wai Hong and my sifu are good friends. Whenever my sifu gets time away from his business while he's in NY ,he and Wai Hong usually meet and eat together. When my sifu first came to the U.S. ,he was approached by Wai Hong and welcomed in to the Chinatown community.

Shortly after Wai Hong held a big event ,and asked my sifu to do a demo of black tiger at this event. My sifu out of respect agreed to do a short demo. The event was hailed as come see the Black Tiger style all the way from Hong Kong. It was listed that way in all the chinese newspapers everywhere. People came from Boston,California,Chicago,and many other areas where a large Tong population were.

Many asked my sifu to teach their members ,but he refused. I'm not going to make any statements here ,but i'm sure you've heard rumors about Wai Hong and tongs before. Well it is believed that Wai Hong is the reason that no action was taking against my sifu when he refused these request.

The only problem i have yet to figure out and understand is this. Whenever any senior students of Fu Jow Pai cut ties with Wai Hong for whatever reason. Shortly after they claim to be teaching Shaolin Black Tiger ,when that is not actually correct. Like Tak Wah Eng and Paul Koh for example. They claim what they're teaching to be Shaolin Black Tiger ,but they're actually teaching Fu Jow pai. I know this is very confusing for ppl that are reading this to understand.

I don't know though, if there is another lineage of Fu Jow Pai out there??? I have yet to see or hear anything about it. I know i've come across other black tiger styles like the one Wes Cameron in Canada teaches that claim to be a Black Tiger style. But in reality it's a variation of Fu Jow Pai. There are some techniques that FJP is known for and uses a lot. Wes Camerons black tiger has those same techniques. In fact anthony, I know you did Fu Jow Pai. Take a look at the forms on Wes Camerons site and tell me if you see what i mean.

Here's a link.

Wes Camerons Black Tiger Videos

Look at those and i think you see what i mean.



jeff

[Antonius]

Howdy Jeff.

I'm not going to make any statements here ,but i'm sure you've heard rumors about Wai Hong and tongs before

Shhh!!!!

Like Tak Wah Eng and Paul Koh for example.

As I understand it, Paul Koh isn't exactly on good terms with Wai Hong or Hui Cambrelen (my former Sifu). Last I heard he was jumping off a subway to avoid Sifu Hui.

Wes Camerons black tiger has those same techniques. In fact anthony, I know you did Fu Jow Pai. Take a look at the forms on Wes Camerons site and tell me if you see what i mean.

I didn't learn many forms. The forms I partially learned (and forgot, like a fool) were Power Fist and Buddha's Fist. I didn't even get into the real Black Tiger stuff. Most of what I learned in Fu Jow Pai was similar to Hung Ga. I did, however, get to see Sifu Hui do lots of application, all of which was thoroughly impressive.

I do see what you mean about some of those techniques, but my understanding of Fu Jow Pai is too limited to draw any real conclusions about Cameron.

[hakfudisciple]

Originally posted by Antonius
Howdy Jeff.

Shhh!!!!

As I understand it, Paul Koh isn't exactly on good terms with Wai Hong or Hui Cambrelen (my former Sifu). Last I heard he was jumping off a subway to avoid Sifu Hui.

No he's not on good terms with anyone it seems other than Tak Wah Eng. From what i've heard not sure how true it is. But Tak Wah Eng is the nephew of Wai Hong.

I didn't learn many forms. The forms I partially learned (and forgot, like a fool) were Power Fist and Buddha's Fist. I didn't even get into the real Black Tiger stuff. Most of what I learned in Fu Jow Pai was similar to Hung Ga. I did, however, get to see Sifu Hui do lots of application, all of which was thoroughly impressive.

Well sililar is correct like our black tiger as well ,but they only look similar. There is actually very little that either really share with Hung Gar. Although Wong Fei Hung is known to have learned Black Tiger ,it's believed he learnt it from either his father Wong Kay Yin or Su Hak Fu himself.

I do see what you mean about some of those techniques, but my understanding of Fu Jow Pai is too limited to draw any real conclusions about Cameron.

Well did you notice a sort of kenpo/kempo flavor to Camerons movements???



jeff

[Antonius]

Well did you notice a sort of kenpo/kempo flavor to Camerons movements???

Maybe. Overall, I wasn't very impressed with Cameron, but maybe I better keep that to myself.

[hakfudisciple]

Originally posted by Antonius
Maybe. Overall, I wasn't very impressed with Cameron, but maybe I better keep that to myself.

Well you're not the first or hundredth person to have said that.




jeff

[DarkCosmoz]

Does anyone know about Spirit Boxing in Black Tiger Kungfu? What exactly is it? Thanks in advance.

Best wishes,
Stephen

Namo Guan Shi Yin Pu Sa

[Darryl]

Political arguements

Hi Jeff,

I wouldn't worry about posting your comments regarding the history and roots of your style. The 'nod & smile if you disagree' method works well and if I didn't agree, I would write why. If I do feel the need to attack you, could you recommend a good hotel as I would need to fly over anyway . Failing that, do you have spare floor space after my righteous indignation was over?

Stephen,

There is a separate thread regarding Spirit Boxing in the 'Other Spiritual Systems' section. To avoid repition, we could reactivate that one otherwise we are likely to just repeat ourselves. It is a very interesting subject and while it is not something we train in Shaolin Wahnam, it is something we accept the existance of.

[DarkCosmoz]

Ahh... found it. Thanks very much Darryl.

[hakfudisciple]

Hi Jeff,

I wouldn't worry about posting your comments regarding the history and roots of your style. The 'nod & smile if you disagree' method works well and if I didn't agree, I would write why. If I do feel the need to attack you, could you recommend a good hotel as I would need to fly over anyway . Failing that, do you have spare floor space after my righteous indignation was over?

Ha Ha Ha lol

I hear you Darryl ,you're more than welcome to visit and stay anytime you like ,once i settle in here in NY now.

DarkCosmoz,

You're welcome to ask me anything about Spirit Boxing ,you might like to know. You can pm me or IM me if you don't want to ask on the forum. Wahnam's forum is not like the others out there patrolled by trolls ,so i feel safe to deal with replies here. I don't expect some to believe in Spirit Boxing ,but neither do i try to force my beliefs or non beliefs on anyone either.

jeff

[DarkCosmoz]

Hi Jeff,

Thank you very much for offering to answer questions. If Wahnam accepts Spirit Boxing, I guess I'd be more inclined into doing so too. Actually, a better way to say it is that I will keep an open mind. After all, this universe is full of unlimited possibilities.

So... onto Spirit Boxing

1. Is there a purpose for allowing a god such as the great General Guan Gong to enter your body? Is it to enhance martial abilities or further one's development?

2. Why is General Guan Gong chosen instead of other martial art type of gods? (actually, this is sort of a stupid question I apologize).

Thanks in advance!

Best wishes,
Stephen

Namo Guan Shi Yin Pu Sa