Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

" Spirit Boxing "

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • " Spirit Boxing "

    Ok everyone before i go into what Spirit Boxing is please remember this is a touchy subject.Some may think i'm nuts! or some may think this is a cruel joke! In either case this is a part of the advanced levels of Hak Fu Moon.

    Spirit Boxing is a very spiritual part of the advanced levels of Black Tiger style.It has kept Hak Fu Moon surrounded in secrecy from the begining of the styles creation.Even in Hong Kong where Grandmaster Wong Cheung taught kung fu for well over 40 yrs. Spirit Boxing kept Black Tiger from becomming mainstream like Wing Chun and Choy Lay Fut.

    Spirit Boxing or San Da (sp) is when you ask the spirit of a warrior or master to inter your body.You then take on the knowledge of this spirit you allowed to inter your body.Most call this " A Willing Possesion" because you invited this spirit into your body.

    Once again this is not a joke or proof that i'm nuts!

    I'm explaining a serious part of the Black Tiger System.That has kept it out of the mainstream all these years.I'm always asked why are'nt there more Hak Fu Moon schools.It because of the Occult like Belifes of Spirit Boxing that have kept many away from Black Tiger even in China.

    One of the most common spirits taking on by Spirit Boxing Stylist is that of General Kwan of The Kwan-Do fame.Spirit Boxing is not to be taking lightly.It is very dangerous dwelling into a realm of that type.You need to fully understand how to access these spirits and then understand how to control them once you have aquired them. If not the spirit could easily overtake you.This started to happen to a Sihing of mine when he began studing Spirit Boxing.He no longer wishes to dwell into Spirit Boxing having gone through a bad experience early in his training.

    I'm going to stop here.

    I just wanted to give an overview of Spirit Boxing and why it has kept Hak Fu Moon relatively hidden from the mainstream .

    Also not many feel comfortable speeking or hearing of such dealings into that spiritual realm.

    jeff
    Sil Lum Hak Fu Mun
    sigpic

  • #2
    Once again Jeff, fascinating reading. I feel privaliged to be able to read something that is not common knowledge, thankyou for sharing.

    It reminded me of something I'd read in "Tai Chi the Treasure of Mankind" a book written by They Soon Tuan head of Wutan UK, in it he wrote:

    "..Spirtual martial arts. These forms of martial arts are still practised by some Chinese. Many, many years ago I was introduced to a person who kew this form of martial art and I was fortunate enough to witness the follwing demonstration. After he had prayed for a while in front of the god that he followed, he asked me to hold onto a piece of green cloth with some special hieroglyphics. He then brought out a large, sharp chopping knife and started to chop me on my back and legs.

    It is believed, apparently, that the chopping is an effective way of draining off bad energy. The knife sounded as though it was striking an iron pole and was therefore unable to cut into my body. He later asked me to follow him to do certain chanting exercises, holding 3 incense sticks. The chanting made me feel as though I was with someone that I respected very much.

    When the feeling had grown almost unbearably stong, I could feel my hand being moved by an unseen force and the incense was taken away from me by my assistant. This unseen force guided me as I executed a whole martial arts sequence that I did not recognise and I am certain I had never seen before. I never tried again as I did not feel that I knew enough about such supernatural events."

    I offer this in the nature of sharing information

    Comment


    • #3
      Martial memories

      I fully agree that this can be seen as a very touchy subject, but I also see that it does have its place in a martial arts discussion forum.

      As a practitioner of Shaolin Wahnam Kung Fu I have nothing really to say on this subject, but I certainly accept it as a reality.

      This to me is an interesting discussion, and also since to the layman or casual observer, Self Manifested Chi flow can look very much like possession, it is something I am happy to discuss.

      Having had very deep and intense Chi Flows and having been in the presence of spirits and demons, I can categorically state that they are not the same thing. As to allowing a 'Willing Possession', I would certainly not advise this for the casual practitioner or the moderate student.

      However, please note Jeff that I am not making any statement regarding this as part of the syllabus and tradition within your school, since I have not seen how you do it I can not comment. My advice is more for people outside of established traditions or for those who may like the idea of this but have no practical method or groundwork for it.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm glad you guy's have a open mind to this subject.

        Marcus and Darryl ,


        i've spoken on this subject at other forums and the responses have varied greatly.I've had comments that compare very close to what you both said ,and then i've had the nasty comments that i really did'nt think this subject demanded.I can understand that some might not want to talk about this subject.I also understand that some don't believe in this sort of stuff ,but to be outright nasy over the subject is beyond me.

        jeff
        Sil Lum Hak Fu Mun
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Insulting Comments

          Hi again Jeff,

          I think that anyone likely to immediately dismiss such a possibility would not really fit on this forum, given that the acceptance of the existance of chi can be a lengthy discussion topic on some forums, yet here it does without saying that chi exists.

          So I would take silence as a polite 'no comment' instead of the usual disbelief. As you say, it is indeed a touchy subject.

          Comment


          • #6
            Darryl, you don't really believe in all that chi nonsense, do you? Chi means breath! Nothing more!! Breath gives life!!!! Using chi in a punch means use proper breathing!!!!! Period!!!!!

            Hee hee
            Sifu Anthony Korahais
            www.FlowingZen.com
            (Click here to learn more about me.)

            Comment


            • #7
              Non existance of chi

              Indeed Antonius, I was forgetting ... how careless of me

              I know I can feel chi when I wiggle my toes (actually, this is true ... I'm not very good at this unfortunately)

              That said, this is a topic that could certainly raise a few eyebrows in all circles, especially regarding what it takes to constitute a martial art and the true objectives of an art.

              Jeff, I wish you every success with your practice, and also wish you to return same from harm and enriched by your experiences.
              Last edited by Darryl; 16 February 2003, 03:32 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Non existance of chi

                Originally posted by Darryl
                Jeff, I wish you every success with your practice, and also wish you to return same from harm and enriched by your experiences.

                Darryl,

                Thanks!

                I'm kinda worried a little to be honest.I was raised in church and really don't know how to view this.I mean is this messing with the wrong type of spirits? I've always been one to dismiss vodoo and such ,but would'nt this be along those lines?

                jeff
                Sil Lum Hak Fu Mun
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would like to comment.
                  Ghosts and Dead spirits have weaker chi than humans.
                  They can't hurt you. By allowing another spirit to enter you(posession) Then you are giving the spirit the opportunity to harm you and the people around you.
                  Through practicing Chi Kung, we develop our Guardian Chi.
                  The guardian chi will keep you from harm. Whether it be physical, emotional, or spiritual.
                  If you are searching for truth, meditate. If you are searching for knowledge, read or ask. If your are searching for heaven, pray.
                  If you want to be posessed by a spirit, do so with a master supervising you.
                  I personally feel it is not necessary to do such a thing. I practice the Shaolin arts that fulfill all my goals. Physical, emotional, spiritual.

                  I hope this helps.


                  Anton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Has anyone read any books by Kosta Danaos. He has made some interesting statements about spirits and the like and really physics implictios and such. He was a physics engineer who after watching the famous ring of fire documentary he moved to look for the guy who did it. John something (cant remember at the moment will post real name later). I seem to remember he was based in malaysia somewhere. Ah well anyone read the books?
                    not the shop.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Antonskafar
                      I would like to comment.
                      Ghosts and Dead spirits have weaker chi than humans.
                      They can't hurt you. By allowing another spirit to enter you(posession) Then you are giving the spirit the opportunity to harm you and the people around you.
                      Through practicing Chi Kung, we develop our Guardian Chi.
                      The guardian chi will keep you from harm. Whether it be physical, emotional, or spiritual.
                      If you are searching for truth, meditate. If you are searching for knowledge, read or ask. If your are searching for heaven, pray.
                      If you want to be posessed by a spirit, do so with a master supervising you.
                      I personally feel it is not necessary to do such a thing. I practice the Shaolin arts that fulfill all my goals. Physical, emotional, spiritual.

                      I hope this helps.


                      Anton
                      Antonskafar,

                      I see what you are saying ,but spirit boxing is a part of Black Tiger Style.I'm not sure of how or if it was added to the style or what.I'm a disciple of my sifu i along with my sihing have been chosen to learn and pass on the entire style of Hak Fu Moon.So i feel it's my duty to learn the entire style so i can pass on the knowledge.If not then you end up losing Spirit Boxing altogether down the line.So many styles have lost techniques that can not be recovered because someone felt it was not important or needed or what have you.

                      Hak Fu Moon itself is very rare in the first place because so many have decided to take their knowledge to the grave with them.My sifu has hundreds of Black Tiger brothers yet only three teach the style to others.My sifu himself had stopped teaching the style for 6yrs.I along with my sihing by 1 day talked my sifu back into teaching.And now we are in the midst of starting a Black Tiger Association here in the U.S. to go with the original back in Hong Kong.It might not be important to others to learn Spirit Boxing? but i'm glad that i'll have a choice to learn it rather than it being something that is only a myth or fairytale because no one no longer knows it.

                      jeff


                      Last edited by hakfudisciple; 17 February 2003, 09:09 PM.
                      Sil Lum Hak Fu Mun
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Anton,

                        I have never heard Sifu speak about "Guardian Chi." Could you please be more specific as to what you are referring to and where you heard about it?

                        Also, I would like to point out that our own lineage has a tradition somewhat similar to what has been described here as "Spirit Boxing." However, it is is not something that is openly discussed, even amongst disciples.

                        Jeff,

                        I wouldn't worry. If you trust your life to your Sifu -- as you should if you are to pass on his arts -- then you should feel safe doing as instructed. Follow the teachings with due respect, and all will be well.
                        Sifu Anthony Korahais
                        www.FlowingZen.com
                        (Click here to learn more about me.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Antonius
                          Jeff,

                          I wouldn't worry. If you trust your life to your Sifu -- as you should if you are to pass on his arts -- then you should feel safe doing as instructed. Follow the teachings with due respect, and all will be well.
                          Anthony,

                          I hear you bro!

                          I trust my sifu with my life.He's a second father to me we are very close.It did'nt seem that way at first because he rarely smilled or joked ,but now he is one of the funniest ppl i've ever met.We talk about everything and he's even helping my sihing and i to start our own business plus open schools in the future.I know i'll be ok it's just a weird subject if you know what i mean?

                          jeff
                          Sil Lum Hak Fu Mun
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Anthony,

                            Guardian Chi
                            This term was used previous to my instruction with Sifu.
                            It is general self protection from harm or illness. Physical, emotional and spiritual. By developing a powerful chi current and accumulating chi within the whole body, you are developing your Guardian Chi. I just used this terminology since it is the same thing.
                            I practiced, "ToMo Stares at a Wall," under my previous Chi Kung Sifu. This was a Chi Kung therapy. Under this method, you were trained to see Chi,(including colours and diagnosis) permeate Chi from your hands, and manipulate the patients Chi in their body.
                            Solely practiced as a healing art. My previous Sifu, rejected any notion of martial arts to this Chi Kung. Although, this Chi Kung is of Shaolin descent. It was purely to eleviate the pains and suffering of patients.


                            Jeff,

                            It is wonderful to be chosen to pass on the complete art that you are learning. It is very compassionate of you to promote your art also. I haven't heard the term Spirit Boxing in Shaolin Wahnam yet.( with acception to what Anthony just mentioned) Should Sifu feel that I am ready to learn such a thing in the future, then I would be very fortunate and honoured to accept this teaching.
                            At this time, it is not a necessity for me to be trained in such a thing. Currently, I am mastering what I have been taught.

                            Should Spirit Boxing be a great benefit to you, your family and your students, then this is a great opportunity.

                            I am just not clear what the benefits of such a thing are?
                            Could you clarify for me? Thank you.

                            Anton

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am not sure of the correct name for the practice, which in my understanding is Taoist in origin, but it is not as exclusive as one might think. When I was in Thailand one year during Sonkran (the Thai new year festival) I personally witnessed this type of ‘willing possession’ where a Chinese Taoist master in Hat Yai invited the god (here I make a distinction between ‘a god’ and ‘the God’) to enter his body (which the god then did) and then he proceeded to do some fairly amazing things. They had previously constructed a pair of ladders the leaned together to create a triangle, with a small platform at the top, the sides of this construction were covered in what I now recognise as the yellow Taoist talismans. The master then, while shaking and shouting and chanting strange words proceeded to climb up the ladder on one side. Nothing too abnormal about this you think, well that was when I noticed that the rungs of the ‘ladders’ we actually swords! The master was climbing with bare hands and feet, without being cut!

                              On the way up he picked up certain talismans and chanted various things, spending a few moments shaking at the top (I thought he might fall off!) he then climbed down the other side. There were other displays of this kind of ‘willing possession’ and various other amazing feats after this, some really quite obscure. The point is that this was in the street, and watched by a lot of Chinese and Thai people (Hat Yai is almost more Chinese than Thai) and those who I talked to said that something similar happened every year.

                              In our own line Sigung Ho Fatt Nam was already an accomplished Taoist master before he trained Shaolin Arts, and so we have the benefit of practices from both systems, and I have be told of this, and similar practices by Sifu before.

                              Spirits them selves occupy a realm of existence below us. To help explain here is a quote from Sukhavati by Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit:

                              “Classes of beings not normally visible to us include hell inhabitants, ghosts and spirits, asuras (titans), devas (heavenly beings) and brahmas (gods).”

                              As I understand the situation ghosts and spirits are lost, and hungry (for they can never find food) and we should have pity on them not be scared of them. Our Chi is like electricity to them, there is not a special type of Chi that protects us, just Chi, so those with internal force and good energy flow have nothing to be concerned about. In Mahayana Buddhist monasteries monks would leave seven grains of rice from their meal for hungry ghosts, and there are festivals at Taoist and Buddhist temples where people come to pray for spirits, and chant sutras for them.

                              Allowing a ‘spirit’ to posses you is not really an adequate term, especially if we are talking the great Guan Gong! (my personal CMA hero!) These beings are gods not just mere spirits, nonetheless such practices are only to be attempted in the presence of, and under the supervision of, a master.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X