Becoming Spiritually Mature

[AlexBaranosky]

What role does the Heart play in this? I remember posting a quote in another topic that the true measure of spiritual attainment is not the opening of the third eye (in this case, this can be taken to mean the mind and how it perceives the world) but the opening of the Heart. I would actually go so far as to say that I wish my entire worldview to be shaped by my Heart’s connection to God.

The mind is useful but it’s a human tool, and only a human tool. I much prefer to rely on my Heart-to-Heart connection with God – Faith – than to rely on my mind and perfecting my mind’s perceptions.

It is good to think good thoughts, but ultimately that’s the mind, and God’s in the Heart. You can't think your way to God.

The mind and heart are directly correlated. So by my view a heart cannot open to God, if the mind is not ready. And the mind cannot think Godly thoughts without the heart opening to match them. So to me the heart and mind always must travel together, like a siamese twin.

[DarkCosmoz]

Hi James,

I don’t subscribe to the idea that God is non-dualistic, neither good nor evil. God is Good and Light and has no evil or darkness in Him. And my witness to that fact are the saints and divine beings throughout the ages who show us what God is like – like Jesus, Shiva, and Buddha – and show us that God wants evil and darkness done away with. The idea that God is non-dualistic is a perfect way to stop people from taking a stand in the world and claiming their right to stand for God in daily life.

Two, people who subscribe to the idea that God is non-dualistic, I have observed, are generally unwilling to take a stand against evils going on right under their nose. Instead of being willing to face opposition, they retreat into their 'oneness with God' and allow other people to do what they like, because 'the most important thing is free will' and 'God doesn't really care what choices they make'. What they miss is that there IS such a thing as Truth – as in, Ultimate Truth. And there are laws to how the universe works - God's Laws. They exists irrespective of your perspective. It's not our job to change our mind's perception of reality - our job is to surrender, in our Hearts, to the reality that is God, out of love for God.

It is certainly fine to view God as good dualistically. We will all reach our ultimate goal of enlightenment via different routes and passages. Jesus once said, "In my Father's house, there are many rooms."

I am no authority on this matter and have only had glimpses of cosmic reality through mantra chanting so far. Even if I were to experience God as I see Him (with form or formless), it would be different than the way others experience Him.

Biologically, we have a inner divine chakra location near our heart called the 'Hrit Padma.' This divinity can be reached through intense devotion and meditation, scripture reading, prayer, mantra chanting, Chi Kung, etc. When contact is made, we experience what we believe to be God. He can appear as Jesus, as Krishna, as Buddha, as Kali, or any form God chooses to reveal Himself as. If the person still has his fanatical ego attached, revelations like this can lead to holy wars and disputes.

I would like to quote the late Sri Ramakrishna, who was a powerful and devout child of Mother Kali:

How can you say that the only truth about God is that He has form? It is undoubtedly true that God comes down to earth in a human form, as in the case of Krishna. And it is true as well that God reveals Himself to His devotees in various forms. But it is also true that God is formless; He is the Indivisible Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute.

He has been described in the Vedas both as formless and as endowed with form. He is also described there both as attributeless and as endowed with attributes. Do you know what I mean? Satchidananda is like an infinite ocean. Intense cold freezes the water into ice, which floats on the ocean in blocks of various forms.

Ocean of the Absolute. These forms are meant for the bhaktas, the lovers of God. But when the Sun of Knowledge rises, the ice melts; it becomes the same water it was before. Water above and water below, everywhere nothing but water.

Therefore a prayer in the Bhagavata says: 'O Lord, Thou hast form, and Thou art also formless. Thou walkest before us, O Lord, in the shape of a man; again, Thou hast been described in the Vedas as beyond words and thought.' "But you may say that for certain devotees God assumes eternal forms. There are places in the ocean where the ice doesn't melt at all. It assumes the form of quartz.

I absolutely love his explanation!

[DarkCosmoz]

To continue from the above post...

Interestingly, Sri Ramakrishna was fascinated by Christianity. He read the Bible and followed Jesus' advice as closely as possible. One day in deep prayer, he had a vision of Christ, who merged into his body.

[Guest]

Hi Alex,

The mind and heart are directly correlated. So by my view a heart cannot open to God, if the mind is not ready. And the mind cannot think Godly thoughts without the heart opening to match them. So to me the heart and mind always must travel together, like a siamese twin.

Maybe, maybe not. I really don't know about this. But I think the heart can lead before the mind. I mean, purifying our mental bodies is a part of the spiritual path, but opening yourself to that purification only comes when you receive the heart-to-heart transmission from your Guru, from your Sifu, or from God. Chi kung is transmitted heart-to-heart, and that's how God works too.

The point is that spiritual growth does not happen through the mind. There are many people who think Godly thoughts, who think good thoughts, who are intelligent and knowledgeable and are - maybe - ready to come to God, but they don't have any connection to God, because their heart hasn't opened to Him. In fact, that describes me a few years ago. The difficulty with a mental approach to anything - including the spiritual path - is that it leaves the door wide open for pride to develop. Again, I speak from my own experience, and pride is incredibly dangerous because God wants us to bend the knee to His Will, to surrender to Him, to stop pushing Him away and to invite Him in so that He can help us.



Hi Stephen,

It is certainly fine to view God as good dualistically. We will all reach our ultimate goal of enlightenment via different routes and passages. Jesus once said, "In my Father's house, there are many rooms."

I don't think it's a case of 'different routes' to reach God. It's that I simply see no reason, and I find it doesn't make sense, to think of God as neutral, neither good nor evil. I think you can get into a very dangerous grey, murky moral ground. God has a Will. So many texts talk of God's Will, the Will of Heaven. Why would a neutral God have a will? Why would a neutral God even care? Even if that God were unconditional love, if he were neutral why would he want to share that love with us?

Even though we may experience God slightly differently, there is still only One God, One Truth, One Light. We experience God in our world of form - but the formless God doesn't have to be neutral and 'grey'.



But, no matter, what your beliefs about God, I would encourage heartfelt prayer and surrender to that God. That's what I'm mainly driving at here. So many people pursue God through various techniques, seeking an 'experience' of God. But God in my life has always been subtle. It's the surrender, the soul saying, "I can't do this alone. Please help me. Please help me to love, serve and Be you in the world, please God, even if this path is painful and hard. Please purify my Heart. I'm willing to give up everything and anything for you." It's the giving of all your troubles, questions, worries, and pains to God, and feeling that, each time you do this, there is a subtle release, a knowing that God is the Doer and, if you allow Him to Be the Doer in you, then he will heal you and bring you Home

[MaxP]

Hello guys,

There are many people who think Godly thoughts, who think good thoughts, who are intelligent and knowledgeable and are - maybe - ready to come to God, but they don't have any connection to God, because their heart hasn't opened to Him. In fact, that describes me a few years ago. The difficulty with a mental approach to anything - including the spiritual path - is that it leaves the door wide open for pride to develop. Again, I speak from my own experience, and pride is incredibly dangerous because God wants us to bend the knee to His Will, to surrender to Him, to stop pushing Him away and to invite Him in so that He can help us.

Just wanted to say thank you for this brother, this is wonderfully helpful and insightful.

Best wishes to all in their journey,

Max

Namo Amitabha Buddha, Namo Amitabha Buddha, Namo Amitabha Buddha

[AlexBaranosky]

James,

The mind is not just your ability to reason. The mind is much more. That's why it is called the heart/mind in Chinese.

All the Best,
Alex

[Omar]

How are you by the way brother?

Hi dear Max!

I am very fine thank you, -27 degrees considered

At least that's how "I" see it

[AlexBaranosky]

"Ahh it's -27 degrees! What a beautiful day "

[Omar]

It's quite the experience. At this temperature your nose hairs freeze after about 5 min outside, giving a itch inside your nose as they loose flexibility.

Further inland it's dipped below -30. At that temperature you can take a cup of hot tea outside, throw it into the air and it will in a second turn into a small white cloud of ice particles, drifting away like steam.

It's hilarious walking outside, watching everyone that breathes in through theirs nose with that scrunched up look on their face from the itchy nose hairs.

Now, to try to keep this report on frozen nose hairs somewhat on topic, its quite interesting to observe the effects of a open heart; I don't consciously choose with my mind to find this weather funny and beautiful, instead of annoying and depressing like many people here do. It happens naturally.

I believe that illustrates the quoted statement below quite nicely, walking a spiritual path is indeed not about intellectualizing. It's quite practical.

The point is that spiritual growth does not happen through the mind. There are many people who think Godly thoughts, who think good thoughts, who are intelligent and knowledgeable and are - maybe - ready to come to God, but they don't have any connection to God, because their heart hasn't opened to Him.

Thank you, Sifu.

[AlexBaranosky]

Omar,


Interestingly, I can quite easily choose with my mind to see something as beautiful and voila, it happens. Maybe this is from my practice making my mind sharper, who knows =D

[Omar]

Yes, there is always a choice. But when it's not even needed to make that choice consciously, I find it truly wonderful

[AndrewBill]

Gifted

Yes, there are a lot of people who aren't conscious about how our world really is like.
You called them asleep or ignorant... there are a lot of these I believe but also there are in one hand some I personally call influenced and in the other hand distracted people.

It doesn't matter how one call those people... I was one of them and am happy for not being like that anymore but it's important to not get angry with those ones. Lets love them for what they are and pray for their awakening.

I am Roman Catholic since my Baby-Times knowing times without faith in God... 20 years later... Since August 2008, I started to believe in Jesus and began to read and test the Bible... I got baptised again in March 2009. So I got baptised two times - I personally say that in my situation the first time was a baptism of religion and the second one a baptism in faith. For someone with a traditional Philippine Roman Catholic background it was not an easy step but it was worth it. My religion is the same but my faith and my whole personality has changed a lot.

Nowadays I got a Bible Study Group called GIFTED, means "Growing In Faith Totally Empowers Dimensions"...

In my relationship with God, my view of the world has had a lot of changes. Starting by being conscious about spiritual acts, remembering dreams after 10 years of a "non dreaming time" (some of them really happened), knowing what will happen in a concrete and actual situation and the growth of love.

The growth of love is something very special for me... One time I was at a Main Station, it was after a motivation event my friend and I was invited to preach - I was crying - somehow feeling the emptiness and pain of different people. I knew it was a time of prayer for those people.

Love the people you think they are ignorant or asleep. Pray for them, bless them. If they awake, they may be able to see or love more than oneself. Don't be angry or something like that... forgive them... learn how to love even enemies.

1. Corinthians, Chapter 13, verse 1-13:
(1) If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (2) If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (3) If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

(4) Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. (5) It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. (6) Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. (7) It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

(8) Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. (9) For we know in part and we prophesy in part, (10) but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. (11) When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. (12) Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

(13) And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

If you for example received the gift of seeing more, learn to live with it in love. You will grow and there will be fruits of life for others.