Tao Te Ching

[Claire]

Hi there all,

The time has come where I would like to read the Tao Te Ching.

Having read various texts that have required translation in the past, I know that so much can either be lost of added in the translation as it can be quite a subjectinve art in itself.

And so, I wondered if anyone could recommend a particularly good, clear and preferably 'literal/direct' translation so that I can gain as much from it msyelf without too much interferance from a joyfully overzealous translator please?

Any help much appreciated

Claire

[Piers]

Hi Claire. I struggled with the so-called classic translation by someone called Richard Wilhelm (seemed really dense and unclear) and discovered one that actually came over as poetry or something close to it - it's by Stephen Mitchell. You can read some of it here:

http://www.mindfully.org/Tao-Te-Ching-Lao-tzu.htm

I think he's done quite a bit of interpreting from a Zen perspective, which isn't a bad thing, but means it's not quite the literal/direct translation you're after.

This page compares various translations, including Mitchell's (which the guy likes), and recommends another one that came out in 2000 by someone called Jeff Rasmussen:

http://www.crispinsartwell.com/ttcreviews.htm

Let us know what you end up with, and whether you like it. It's one of my favourite books, although I'm sure I've only scraped the surface of its meaning. I love the way it turns common sense on its head - a kind of anarchic humour. Or at least that's how I read it. Here's a good bit...

Throw away holiness and wisdom,
and people will be a hundred times happier.
Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.
Throw away industry and profit,
and there won't be any thieves.

(Mitchell translation)

piers

[Claire]

Many thanks Piers,

I think the bersion you're suggesting sounds very beautiful, and is probably one I would like to read once I have read a more literal version - it's always nice to have other people's perspective i.e. his more interprative translation, but in this I would very much like to find my own footing first if that makes sense

James T (hope you don't mind me mentioning you James Sidai) was very kind and mailed me about this version:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tao-Te-Ching...0960782&sr=8-1

along with the first couple of passages:

1

Tao called Tao is not Tao.

Names can name no lasting name.

Nameless: the origin of Heaven and Earth.
Naming: the mother of ten thousand things.

Empty of desire, perceive mystery.
Filled with desire, perceive manifestations.

These have the same source, but different names.
Call them both deep–
Deep and again deep:

The gateway to all mystery.


2

Recognise beauty and ugliness is born.
Recognise good and evil is born.

Is and isn’t produce each other.

Hard depends on easy,
Long is tested by short,
High is determined by low,
Sound is harmonised by voice,
After is followed by before.

Therefore the Sage is devoted to non-action,
Moves without teaching,
Creates ten thousand things without instruction,
Lives but does not own,
Acts but does not presume,
Accomplishes without taking credit.

When no credit is taken,
Accomplishment endures.



This feels like what I'm after.

Thank you very much to both of you!

from the heart,

Claire

[Jonny Say]

Hope you enjoy this wonderful book Claire.

Id like to share a recent experience relating to it. I had read the Tao Te Ching a few years back when I was training other systems, and was left bemused and not really into it.

I recently picked it up and started reading it in a library and literally couldn't put it down. It was like eating delicious fresh food, literally every sentence felt nourishing and immersed with peace and joy. I could understand it at a more intuitive level and I was suprised at how much I felt my heart opening up as I enjoyed the lines.

Amazing experience, enjoy the read!

All the best

[Piers]

It is a wonderful book. Your post, Jonny, made me go back and have another dip in... I spotted this (from the Mitchell translation).


The ancient Masters were profound and subtle.
Their wisdom was unfathomable.
There is no way to describe it;
all we can describe is their appearance.

They were careful
as someone crossing an iced-over stream.
Alert as a warrior in enemy territory.
Courteous as a guest.
Fluid as melting ice.
Shapable as a block of wood.
Receptive as a valley.
Clear as a glass of water.

Do you have the patience to wait
till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
till the right action arises by itself?

[Claire]

Good Timing and Spacing

Do you have the patience to wait
till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
till the right action arises by itself?

Oh Piers, what a beautiful piece. This bit in particular speaks to me right now. At times recently when all around me and inside me has been swirling, I have sometimes forgotten the simple instruction 'Gently think of the Dan Tien'. To come to things from a place of stillness is such a beautiful thing, then the path of energy guiding you right through things is so plain to see

I feel a trip to Waterstone's coming on tomorrow

Claire
x

[barrys]

Claire,

You might want to check out this thread for some other ideas http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/sho...ight=tao+ching

In this thread there is a discussion about 'wu-wei' that contains references to the Tao Te Ching. In the last post Maxime points at a Q&A where Sifu gives his interpretation of an aspect of Tao Te Ching. http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/sho...ight=tao+ching

Also, if you have Sifu's "Complete Book of Tai Chi Chuan" there are what I assume are Sifu's translations of some sections of the Tao Te Ching .

Best,

Barry

[Claire]

Excellent, thank you Barry, I will!

And apparently the link to the versin on Amazon I posted isn't working properly, that may be a user error on my part! Here's the full URL

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tao-Te-Ching-Lao-Tzu/dp/0872202321/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/026-4573719-8487666?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180960782&sr=8-1

[HugoDarien]

Tao Te Ching

Good Day Friends! I wonder if you have any comments or have read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Teachings-Tao-Te-Ching/dp/0892811919/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/105-6655294-3609252

The Secret Teachings of the Tao Te Ching by Mantak Chia, Tao Huang.

[Mark T]

Hello all,

Adding a late post, I would like to recommend the translation by Ralph Alan Dale with beautiful photographs by John Cleare.
I have a couple of translations of the Tao Te Ching and have read more, this is my favourite.
www.watkinspublishing.com ISBN 1-84293-056-7

Regards,

Mark

[HugoDarien]

Tao Te Ching

Hello and thank Mark for the reply the book looks great, in english and chinese, whit pictures! Book like yours or this new one:

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-New-Translation/dp/1590303873/ref=sr_1_1/105-8594208-1440461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181832063&sr=1-1

http://www.shambhala.com/html/catalog/items/isbn/978-1-59030-387-0.cfm

Would be very great together (if you want) whit Sifu's Book about Tao Te Ching, becuase Sifu sure have research so much hi can about the found texts like for example:

http://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzus-Tao-Ching-Translations/dp/0231118171/ref=sr_1_2/105-8594208-1440461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181831678&sr=1-2

ISBN-10: 0231118171

http://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzu-Translation-Discovered-Ma-wang-tui/dp/0345370996/ref=sr_1_3/105-8594208-1440461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181831678&sr=1-3

ISBN-10: 0345370996


Is amazing how many translation of the Tao Te Chin exist(414 Results- I feel like a lost monkey) in amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=/105-8594208-1440461?rs=297525&page=1&rh=n%3A1000%2Cn%3A22%2Cn%3A12056%2Cn%3A297525&sort=daterank

You can read the book in many languages even online, see here:

http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/

[Maxime]

Hugo,

you definitely are Shaolin Wahnam's special Google search engine

Web-illy yours,

[Chiahua]

Claire, be sure not to neglect the Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi), which is also a splendid read.

[HugoDarien]

Tao Te Ching

Hugo,

you definitely are Shaolin Wahnam's special Google search engine

Web-illy yours,

HA HA HA HA HA HA

I LOVE THAT I LIKE THAT - Your Words Maxime are like a pure sweet rose to my heart hehehehehehehe mmmmmmm like it hihihihih

sucrerie amour to you Maxime from me!!!!

All for the Shaolin Wahnam Family and forum members and guess, is a honor!

Tao Te Ching 2 - 56:

Those who know do not speak;
Those who speak do not know.
Black the passages,
Shut the doors,
Let all sharpness be blunted,
All tangles untied,
All glare tempered.
All dust smoothed.
This is called the mysterious leveling.
He who has achieved it cannot either be drawn into friendship or repelled,
Cannot be benefited, cannot be harmed,
Cannot either be raised or humbled,
And for that very reason is highest of all creatures under heaven.

Here in French for you my friend Maxime, for your help Maxime:

L'homme qui connaît (le Tao) ne parle pas ; celui qui parle ne le connaît pas.
Il clôt sa bouche, il ferme ses oreilles et ses yeux, il émousse son activité, il se dégage de tous liens, il tempère sa lumière (intérieure), il s'assimile au vulgaire. On peut dire qu'il ressemble au Tao.
Il est inaccessible à la faveur comme à la disgrâce, au profit comme au détriment, aux honneurs comme à l'ignominie.
C'est pourquoi il est l'homme le plus honorable de l'univers.

[Maxime]

Thank you Hugo for your kind words and the French extract.

It is always a pleasure to read the Tao Te Tching in my mother-tongue.

French is a beautiful and very precise language, with a vast range of subtleties. French sometimes (often) has 5 or 6 (or even more...) different words for a single English one, which makes any translation a difficult but rewarding task.

Best,